ECT WHAT DO PROPHETS DO IN OT an in GRACE ??

[turbosixx]

You say this is not gospel unto Israel?

Deuteronomy 18:

15. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16. According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire
any more, that I die not.
17. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Mark 1:

1. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2. As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

What is that gospel unto Israel?

John 1:

41. He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Matthew 16:

13. When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14. And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Peter preaching the 2nd Coming after the Lord's Prophesied Wrath - Acts 3:

17. And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Compare that with Moses in Deuteronomy 18, again:

18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Back to Acts 3:

24. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

That is Israel's Prophesied Grace - 1 Peter 1:

10. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11. Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Compare that with Acts 3, again:

19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Romans 11:25-29 asserts that is on hold. That is this here - Romans 15:8-12.

That is now on hold until this here - Romans 15:13-21, be come in.

Yes, I understand Israel was looking for the coming Messiah which is the good news just as 1 Pt 1 shows.

The good news the Jews were looking for is the same good news the Gentiles heard, salvation in Jesus. I don't see a difference.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, I understand Israel was looking for the coming Messiah which is the good news just as 1 Pt 1 shows.

The good news the Jews were looking for is the same good news the Gentiles heard, salvation in Jesus. I don't see a difference.

You're right; you don't.

Mark 1 is, what; about three and a half years before the Cross.

What is the gospel, or good news, mentioned at the end of chapter one?

 

[turbosixx]

You're right; you don't.

Mark 1 is, what; about three and a half years before the Cross.

What is the gospel, or good news, mentioned at the end of chapter one?

Sorry, I'm missing your point. All I see at the end of Mark 1 is physical healing.

 

[Interplanner]

That the Lamb of God had come to take away the sins of the world. There are not two gospels, programs, plans, peoples confusing everyone involved.

 

[turbosixx]

That the Lamb of God had come to take away the sins of the world. There are not two gospels, programs, plans, peoples confusing everyone involved.

I've been a Christian for a long time and know the bible fairly well and have never heard of more than one gospel. It just doesn't add up.

 

[Danoh]

I've been a Christian for a long time and know the bible fairly well and have never heard of more than one gospel. It just doesn't add up.

You're right; it doesn't add up.

Neither does one and one equals one.

Depends what one is looking at, and where from.

"And two shall be as one," for example.

Depends what one is looking at, and where from.

Tell you what; I do not like recommending books due to the tendency of far too many to over rely on them over the greater emphasis so few actually place on Scripture, though assert otherwise they do.

Here is a short synopsis on this issue in book form. Read thru it, and post your questions.

I basically hold to what he has written, more or less, so I think I can handle what questions his assertions might inspire in you. Others on here are also able to address its assertions in its favor.

While, you'll find that those against, don't even know the view.

And two individuals on here will right off turn this into a means for their own glorying - one against the book, another, who actually holds to some of the books assertions.

Save us both a lot of going back and forth, read thru the book, ignore those two individuals (they will make themselves known) and come to your own conclusions.

http://www.bijbel.nl/_files/FinckI01.pdf

 

[DAN P]

It's the same gospel. What is the gospel (good news)? Is it not that man can have his sins forgiven by the blood of Christ? Is there any other good news?

Paul makes it clear there is one good news.

Gal. 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

To keep it simple, tell me what is the difference between the gospel to the circumcised and uncircumcised?

Hi , and the Gospel that Paul preach is called "THE Un-circumcision " and preached to Gentiles as Paul is the apostle of Grace , Rom 11:13 and we are to follow Paul and IMITATE him in 1 Cor 11 !!

" THE CIRCUMCISION " are the Jews and Eph 2:11 tells you the difference !!

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi , and the Gospel that Paul preach is called "THE Un-circumcision " and preached to Gentiles as Paul is the apostle of Grace , Rom 11:13 and we are to follow Paul and IMITATE him in 1 Cor 11 !!

" THE CIRCUMCISION " are the Jews and Eph 2:11 tells you the difference !!

dan p

So if I preach the gospel to a Muslim is it a different gospel? Paul is only stating the field each were sowing. What has the audience to do with the gospel? Please show me where the message is different.

 

[turbosixx]

You're right; it doesn't add up.

Neither does one and one equals one.

Depends what one is looking at, and where from.

"And two shall be as one," for example.

Depends what one is looking at, and where from.

Tell you what; I do not like recommending books due to the tendency of far too many to over rely on them over the greater emphasis so few actually place on Scripture, though assert otherwise they do.

Here is a short synopsis on this issue in book form. Read thru it, and post your questions.

I basically hold to what he has written, more or less, so I think I can handle what questions his assertions might inspire in you. Others on here are also able to address its assertions in its favor.

While, you'll find that those against, don't even know the view.

And two individuals on here will right off turn this into a means for their own glorying - one against the book, another, who actually holds to some of the books assertions.

Save us both a lot of going back and forth, read thru the book, ignore those two individuals (they will make themselves known) and come to your own conclusions.

http://www.bijbel.nl/_files/FinckI01.pdf

Thanks for the link. I have started to read it. Here is what I see so far.

The basic three premises.
1- we can understand
2- bible is for believers, discern spiritually
3- bible means what it says

While I agree with his three basic premises, I don't see them being applied in his rightly dividing. For example:

The book of James is addressed to the 12 tribes. If we take it to mean what it says without looking at context, then that would be the physical nation of Israel.

In 2:1 he says, "My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism."
Here we see he is writing to brethren who put faith in Christ. I understand James to be a Christian and people who put faith in Christ to be Christians.

Since there seems to be a contradiction this is where I apply #2, and look at it spiritually. In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile for there is no division in Christ. Christians might have a Jewish or Gentile background but in Christ we are all one.
Christians are spiritual Israel.
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.


Is James dividing Christ into Jew and Gentile?

So how do we rightly divide the address with content? I'm curious how you do.

 

[DAN P]

So if I preach the gospel to a Muslim is it a different gospel? Paul is only stating the field each were sowing. What has the audience to do with the gospel? Please show me where the message is different.

Hi and only the Holy Spirit can reach you and I see you can not believe what the word says !!:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and only the Holy Spirit can reach you and I see you can not believe what the word says !!:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

dan p

I see you have no understanding and no argument.

 

[Danoh]

Thanks for the link. I have started to read it. Here is what I see so far.

The basic three premises.
1- we can understand
2- bible is for believers, discern spiritually
3- bible means what it says

While I agree with his three basic premises, I don't see them being applied in his rightly dividing. For example:

The book of James is addressed to the 12 tribes. If we take it to mean what it says without looking at context, then that would be the physical nation of Israel.

In 2:1 he says, "My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism."
Here we see he is writing to brethren who put faith in Christ. I understand James to be a Christian and people who put faith in Christ to be Christians.

Since there seems to be a contradiction this is where I apply #2, and look at it spiritually. In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile for there is no division in Christ. Christians might have a Jewish or Gentile background but in Christ we are all one.
Christians are spiritual Israel.
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.


Is James dividing Christ into Jew and Gentile?

So how do we rightly divide the address with content? I'm curious how you do.

Keep reading. And keep taking notes.

Also, read James's understanding as a leader of Messianic Jews in Acts 21, in contrast to Paul's understanding of the Jew and Gentile there, that James agrees with, but that some have taken issue with.

It is why James and his are engaging in Mosaic rituals, while Paul is doing so only in light of his words about that in 1 Corinthians 10.

Acts 9 Dispensationalism aka MAD, clears all these things up. No need to guess at them.

Any time you read in books supposedly about Scripture the words "Perhaps" this, that, the other, you are reading the words of one not yet "perfect in understanding."

A9D allows that perfection. Because A9D resulted from the same approach by which, in Martin Luther, the truth of Romans 1:17's "righteousness of God" began to re-emerge after some 1,500 years or so mostly in darkness due to "the wisdom of men."

Obviously, unaware of the principle the Word had forced him to come to, he just as quickly lost sight of it, thus his struggle to reconcile various issues like James 2 with Romans 4, for example.

On the one hand, he’d learned from his time in Romans 1:17, not to simply reason things together, as most even now do as to Romans 4 and James 2.

On the other hand, he remained unaware of the principle he had stumbled onto.

But anyway, note this principle in his words. I’ve bolded them here.

“For a long time I went astray [in the monastery] and didn’t know what I was about. To be sure, I knew something, but I didn’t know what it was until I came to the text in Romans 1 [:17], ‘He who through faith is righteous shall live.’ That text helped me. There I saw what righteousness Paul was talking about. 82 Earlier in the text I read ‘righteousness.’ I related the abstract [‘righteousness’] with the concrete [‘the righteous One’] and became sure of my cause. I learned to distinguish between the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of the gospel. I lacked nothing before this except that I made no distinction between the law and the gospel. I regarded both as the same thing and held that there was no difference between Christ and Moses except the times in which they lived and their degrees of perfection. But when I discovered the proper distinction—namely, that the law is one thing and the gospel is another—I made myself free.” (Luther's Works, Volume 54, P442).

http://christianity.stackexchange.c...n-luther-arrive-at-the-justification-by-faith

 

[DAN P]

I see you have no understanding and no argument.

Hi and when I meet people like you " I am so mis-understood !!:darwinsm::darwinsm::darwinsm:

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and when I meet people like you " I am so mis-understood !!:darwinsm::darwinsm::darwinsm:

dan p

It is tough trying to get points across but I am trying to understand you. It's hard when you ignore the topic of discussion and level judgements.

I find it easier when someone can help me resolve discrepancies. For example, you claim the gospel is different for the circumcised and uncircumcised. I could better understand if you could show me how the gospel is different for the different audiences instead of just pointing out the different listeners.

 

[turbosixx]

Keep reading. And keep taking notes.

Also, read James's understanding as a leader of Messianic Jews in Acts 21, in contrast to Paul's understanding of the Jew and Gentile there, that James agrees with, but that some have taken issue with.

It is why James and his are engaging in Mosaic rituals, while Paul is doing so only in light of his words about that in 1 Corinthians 10.

Acts 9 Dispensationalism aka MAD, clears all these things up. No need to guess at them.

Any time you read in books supposedly about Scripture the words "Perhaps" this, that, the other, you are reading the words of one not yet "perfect in understanding."

A9D allows that perfection. Because A9D resulted from the same approach by which, in Martin Luther, the truth of Romans 1:17's "righteousness of God" began to re-emerge after some 1,500 years or so mostly in darkness due to "the wisdom of men."

Obviously, unaware of the principle the Word had forced him to come to, he just as quickly lost sight of it, thus his struggle to reconcile various issues like James 2 with Romans 4, for example.

On the one hand, he’d learned from his time in Romans 1:17, not to simply reason things together, as most even now do as to Romans 4 and James 2.

On the other hand, he remained unaware of the principle he had stumbled onto.

But anyway, note this principle in his words. I’ve bolded them here.

“For a long time I went astray [in the monastery] and didn’t know what I was about. To be sure, I knew something, but I didn’t know what it was until I came to the text in Romans 1 [:17], ‘He who through faith is righteous shall live.’ That text helped me. There I saw what righteousness Paul was talking about. 82 Earlier in the text I read ‘righteousness.’ I related the abstract [‘righteousness’] with the concrete [‘the righteous One’] and became sure of my cause. I learned to distinguish between the righteousness of the law and the righteousness of the gospel. I lacked nothing before this except that I made no distinction between the law and the gospel. I regarded both as the same thing and held that there was no difference between Christ and Moses except the times in which they lived and their degrees of perfection. But when I discovered the proper distinction—namely, that the law is one thing and the gospel is another—I made myself free.” (Luther's Works, Volume 54, P442).

http://christianity.stackexchange.c...n-luther-arrive-at-the-justification-by-faith

I will reply to what you have posted here, but I'm curious about who James is addressed to in your understanding. Can you tell me precisely who he is addressing.

 

[Danoh]

I will reply to what you have posted here, but I'm curious about who James is addressed to in your understanding. Can you tell me precisely who he is addressing.

James is not simply writing "to the twelve tribes which scattered abroad," rather to that believing remnant within all Twelve Tribes.

James is writing to these people - Acts 1:

8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Judaea and Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world contained the balance of the Twelve tribes not then part of those referred to as the house of Israel. They were the Lord's "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold."

A little background and then back to James.

John 10:

16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That is this here - Ezekiel 37:

21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them
into their own land:
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into
two kingdoms any more at all.
23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places,
wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Of course that throws off quite a few on TOL, because they turned so much of it into "spiritual" something else.

So what is the land in those passages - cyber space? Might as well spiritualize the land also.

But what all that is talking about is Israel's believing remnant's commission unto their own first, Matthew 10:23, and that Israel be re-gathered as one nation under God*, after which the Gentiles "shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Which brings in Isaiah 2:

1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their
swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Back to who James was writing to. In Acts 8 we read:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

That is who James is writing to, as well as when he wrote James, and why he talks about the trial of their faith, and of their need to let patience have her perfect work, etc - James 1:

1. James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3. Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

*What I said about Israel being one day one nation under God; where did you first here that phrase "one nation under God"?

That is what was brought to North America from Europe out of a long line of wisdom in its own conceits about this all the way back to when the Apostle Paul had had to write the following, in Romans 11:

22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Again, the above does not jibe with the wisdom in its own conceits that ignorance of Paul words began to result in, even in his own day.

An ignorance handed down and held to by many down through the centuries, and to this very day.

 

[Interplanner]

James is not simply writing "to the twelve tribes which scattered abroad," rather to that believing remnant within all Twelve Tribes.

James is writing to these people - Acts 1:

8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Judaea and Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world contained the balance of the Twelve tribes not then part of those referred to as the house of Israel. They were the Lord's "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold."

A little background and then back to James.

John 10:

16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That is this here - Ezekiel 37:

21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them
into their own land:
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into
two kingdoms any more at all.
23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places,
wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Of course that throws off quite a few on TOL, because they turned so much of it into "spiritual" something else.

So what is the land in those passages - cyber space? Might as well spiritualize the land also.

But what all that is talking about is Israel's believing remnant's commission unto their own first, Matthew 10:23, and that Israel be re-gathered as one nation under God*, after which the Gentiles "shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Which brings in Isaiah 2:

1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their
swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Back to who James was writing to. In Acts 8 we read:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

That is who James is writing to, as well as when he wrote James, and why he talks about the trial of their faith, and of their need to let patience have her perfect work, etc - James 1:

1. James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3. Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

*What I said about Israel being one day one nation under God; where did you first here that phrase "one nation under God"?

That is what was brought to North America from Europe out of a long line of wisdom in its own conceits about this all the way back to when the Apostle Paul had had to write the following, in Romans 11:

22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Again, the above does not jibe with the wisdom in its own conceits that ignorance of Paul words began to result in, even in his own day.

An ignorance handed down and held to by many down through the centuries, and to this very day.

To bring back all the accoutrements of Judaism is 2P2P which is not in the Bible. God will not be doing Judaism again.

As for Rom 11, we'd need to hear your comments not quote the thing to death. When you quote it you think what is in mind is how you think. You need to clarify everything. That's why I have the 10 basic theses about NT eschatology.

For ex., what was Isaiah talking about? he was talking about the Gospel (taking away the debt of sin); he was talking about the new covenant, which is "in his blood." And the redeemer from Zion, which is Christ. It is already there, for Paul. Isaiah did not skip to a distant future just because D'ism wants to.

Nothing in the tone of Rom 11 is futurist. It is urging, prodding; it says so. "I'm trying to arouse Israel" to participate in the mission of the Gospel. It is saying most of Israel will be hard to the end of time. But still Paul must try to get any who are willing to be missionaries (Acts 26).

There are many other qualifications and instead of answering them, Danoh just quote 11 because he thinks it has read his mind.

 

[turbosixx]

James is not simply writing "to the twelve tribes which scattered abroad," rather to that believing remnant within all Twelve Tribes.

James is writing to these people - Acts 1:

8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Judaea and Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world contained the balance of the Twelve tribes not then part of those referred to as the house of Israel. They were the Lord's "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold."

A little background and then back to James.

John 10:

16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

That is this here - Ezekiel 37:

21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them
into their own land:
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into
two kingdoms any more at all.
23. Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places,
wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24. And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28. And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Of course that throws off quite a few on TOL, because they turned so much of it into "spiritual" something else.

So what is the land in those passages - cyber space? Might as well spiritualize the land also.

But what all that is talking about is Israel's believing remnant's commission unto their own first, Matthew 10:23, and that Israel be re-gathered as one nation under God*, after which the Gentiles "shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Which brings in Isaiah 2:

1. The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their
swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Back to who James was writing to. In Acts 8 we read:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

That is who James is writing to, as well as when he wrote James, and why he talks about the trial of their faith, and of their need to let patience have her perfect work, etc - James 1:

1. James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
2. My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3. Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

*What I said about Israel being one day one nation under God; where did you first here that phrase "one nation under God"?

That is what was brought to North America from Europe out of a long line of wisdom in its own conceits about this all the way back to when the Apostle Paul had had to write the following, in Romans 11:

22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles
be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Again, the above does not jibe with the wisdom in its own conceits that ignorance of Paul words began to result in, even in his own day.

An ignorance handed down and held to by many down through the centuries, and to this very day.

Thanks for the reply. I will look them over.

 

[Interplanner]

The ignorance is to think all or nothing about ethnos. Paul was saying it never was set up that way. 3:3 starts this. They either wanted all Jews to be thought of as saved, or they wanted to blame God for their actions. Instead Paul answered that each individual answers for themselves. The opening of ch 11 is showing that past, present and future, there were always some in Israel who lived by faith; God has never been all or nothing in dealing with them.

It is a mistake of Judaism--the futility of the way of life handed down by our forefathers, I Pet 1.

 

[turbosixx]

Back to who James was writing to. In Acts 8 we read:

1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

That is who James is writing to, as well as when he wrote James, and why he talks about the trial of their faith, and of their need to let patience have her perfect work, etc - James 1:

I haven't looked at it yet, but just thinking about what you said this jumped out at me.

It seems a detail is being overlooked. The "they" that were scattered is referring the church not Israel. That is who James is writing to, the church.

I will continue to study what you have presented and digest it but for now I see mad not clearing things up but adding confusion. Instead of doing away with separation of Jew and Gentile and finding unity in Christ, mad continues that division by looking at things carnally instead of spiritually.