What do Christians mean when they use these terms?
- Thread starter chair
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beameup
New member
Godhead
You didn't really answer my question. In this thread I am not trying to get an angle on the internal Christian arguments about the Trinity. I just want straightforward definitions of the terms- not all of them are even connected to the Trinity.
A person is an individual entity.
The Godhead is made up of those persons who are God.
A justified person is regarded as innocent of sin.
A righteous person has been justified.
Something fulfilled is made complete.
The Origin of Gods Word.
Gods Word originated from God the Father. The Godhead is all those who are in total agreement with God the Father.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)
Gods Word did NOT originate from Jesus. Jesus got the Word from God the Father.
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
Gods Word did NOT originate from the Holy Spirit. Jesus got the Word from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit only quotes what Jesus said.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)
The Holy Spirit is NOT allowed to speak to us any other way.
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)
This is where the Godhead came from. All three are rooted and grounded in the Word of God. All three only speak Gods Word. But only one of them is God. That would be the Father.
We are trying to deal with the Word of God in the very same way that Jesus dealt with the Word. He is our example. It didnt make Jesus God, and it isnt going to make us God.
xxx There is only one God the Father.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
Gods Word originated from God the Father. The Godhead is all those who are in total agreement with God the Father.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)
Gods Word did NOT originate from Jesus. Jesus got the Word from God the Father.
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
Gods Word did NOT originate from the Holy Spirit. Jesus got the Word from God the Father, and the Holy Spirit only quotes what Jesus said.
John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)
The Holy Spirit is NOT allowed to speak to us any other way.
John 16:13-14
13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(NKJ)
This is where the Godhead came from. All three are rooted and grounded in the Word of God. All three only speak Gods Word. But only one of them is God. That would be the Father.
We are trying to deal with the Word of God in the very same way that Jesus dealt with the Word. He is our example. It didnt make Jesus God, and it isnt going to make us God.
xxx There is only one God the Father.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
Thanks. I don't think I will ever follow how three persons make up one Godhead in a Monotheistic religion.
Maybe I need a definition of "sin"
as well.
How is the Law "fulfilled" then? I thought that if you fulfill the law- that means you obeyed the law. But you are saying something very different.
beameup
New member
The Triune God is an enigma from the perspective of humans.
Nevertheless, it is true. We didn't create God, He created us.
If you get past that, the rest is easy-peasy.
"The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake, he will magnify the law, and make it honourable." (Isaiah 42:21 KJV)
Christ magnified the law he wrote on stone tablets by making it spiritual, which requires his Spirit to obey.
Sin is transgression of the law placed in the ark of the covenant.
"You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28)
Now the law is not just an action but includes the spirit that motivated the action.
For NT believers the Law of Moses is history and is no longer applicable.
Right Divider
Body part
There was sin before the law was given.
Zeke
Well-known member
They have diverse meanings depending on the state of mind, the broad brush/broadway is applicable! disagreement is overridden by facts that most professing christians fit into the same conscience awareness, the common denominator is the term person, beguiled into believing they are a legal person, with its many definitions, strawman, corporation, state property, legally named, worldly distracted, registered, licensed, certified citizen with privileges, a stranger in a far land John 18:36, who need ID/ear tags to prove who they belong to etc.. and have unknowingly given over their God given unalienable rights when you were to young to be fully informed about the choices being made for them Matt 21:38 by legal parents/persons loyal to this worlds government signs over the babe to a legal guardian Galatians 4:1, asleep Prodigals spiritually dead yet walking around, eating crumbs/husks from their masters table.
The term Godhead for those falling under christian/person above, the government would be their Father/Godhead through the birth certificate/corporate creation of person/strawman.
Justified, again it would fall under the jurisdiction of the ruling governing powers statues and codes, john/jane doe only have privileges while in a dead state, 2Tim 3:5, until one awakes Luke 15:17, Eph 5:14.
Righteous in this case is based on being a good citizen following along in obedience to the father/godhead/master figure of the governing power over them.
Fulfilled to a person is being a good person, a spell until the owner/I AM of the conscience awakes from the dead person/persona and follows the I AM within, regaining you're free born status as a living being, having no other Gods before you, the true light within all that come into this world John 1:9, the narrow way and few mortal minded find it by searching in the states/world religious institutions for artificial life gleaned from dead letters 2Cor 3:6, Real liberty is within, where all those terms above belong to a Living Son, of the Living God, Luke 17:20-21, 1Cor 3:16, then John 17:5 will be your prayer.
Zeke
Well-known member
Wick Stick
Well-known member
You mean in common speech, or in religious jargon? The definitions for several of these will be different in each.
I am referring to how people here, on TOL, use these terms. So I guess it is religious jargon that I am interested in.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
Ok, then...
Person - when the doctrine of the trinity was formulated officially, in Latin, the word personae was used to translate the Greek hypostasis. Most literally, it means "what stands below." The idea is that while there is but One God, who belongs to a higher plane of reality, He projects Himself into our lower, material, physical world in 3 ways - as a man (Jesus), as a spirit (the Holy Spirit), and as a god (the Father). If you followed this paragraph, you now understand it better than 99% of Christians.
Godhead - if you have multiple gods, all of them together constitute a pantheon. If you have just one God, and you wish to refer to all his avatars and operations together, Godhead is used.
Justified - Catholics and Protestants do not agree on the definition. For Catholics, this is the process by which God refines men, making them just. Protestants believe justification is when God legally acquits a man, not imputing sin to him, in His capacity as the Judge of man. Both groups hold to both these doctrines, but use the word sanctification to refer to the other doctrine, going both ways, which can make catholic/protestant dialogue confusing, to say the least.
Righteous - an adjective referring to a man who has been justified (protestant sense), or referring to Christ, in reference to His not ever having sinned.
Fulfilled - most often is used to mean that something predicted has "come to pass" or "is completed." Those who have studied a bit, though, know that in the Bible, it can additionally mean "added to" or "re-filled" as in the case when a prophecy can be applied more than once (aka typology).
Wick Stick
Well-known member
This word is overloaded and has multiple definitions. It can refer to any error in general, to the more specific case where one transgresses God's law, or to the debt incurred through wrong actions (aka guilt).
First of all, thank you for a detailed, well thought out answer.
This is something like "manifestations of God", which is understandable. Though I suspect it relates to Neoplatonic thought as well.
I definitely get the impression that most here on TOL don't understand this. Or don't understand it the way you do.
OK
This is one that I have trouble with. Many Christians speak of the Law being "fulfilled". But what does that mean?
Wick Stick
Well-known member
It does. People have been trying to reconcile science and theology for quite a while.
The entire Orthodox church has declared the trinity a "mystery," and ceased trying to make heads or tails of it. Christianity has split into factions, more than once, trying to define God dogmatically. I'm pretty sure a war or two has been fought over it.
I gave you the Classical definition. Others interpretations may vary. And people may be rather fervent in their convictions. I do not hold the Classical view, myself.
That is very much up for debate.
Most Christians I know would agree that the Law points to Christ, in symbolic ways. For instance, the Paschal lamb is thought to pre-figure the Crucifixion. If, then, the ceremonial parts of the law are viewed as prophetic enactments, it makes sense to think of them as being "fulfilled" in the same sense any prophecy might be fulfilled.
If you are referring specifically to the usage in Jesus proclamation of Matthew 5:17, as regards the Law being abrogated, then I believe Jesus' intent was to say that He was ADDING to the Law. Most Christians would probably disagree with that, though.
jsanford108
New member
Hello Chair.
You seem to be more focused on "Godhead" and "fulfilled."
Correct me if I am wrong, of course. I believe that sufficient explanations of the words, through various connotations and denotations, have been provided.
You specifically said you did not understand how 3 persons can be a singular Godhead/God, monotheistic in nature (nature being personal attribute, not "natural").
Mathematically, three distinct figures can equal the same numerical value. Just as H2O can exist in three distinct forms, yet remain static in elemental composition.
As for "fulfilled," the word means "completed" or "satisfied." As you stated, one can "fulfill" the law, yet the law remains. There are many who falsely believe "fulfill" to mean "abolish," or "complete" to mean "done away with."
I do think that overall, several have made very clear explanations, and you have posed very good and sincere queries.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
You seem to be more focused on "Godhead" and "fulfilled."
Correct me if I am wrong, of course. I believe that sufficient explanations of the words, through various connotations and denotations, have been provided.
You specifically said you did not understand how 3 persons can be a singular Godhead/God, monotheistic in nature (nature being personal attribute, not "natural").
Mathematically, three distinct figures can equal the same numerical value. Just as H2O can exist in three distinct forms, yet remain static in elemental composition.
As for "fulfilled," the word means "completed" or "satisfied." As you stated, one can "fulfill" the law, yet the law remains. There are many who falsely believe "fulfill" to mean "abolish," or "complete" to mean "done away with."
I do think that overall, several have made very clear explanations, and you have posed very good and sincere queries.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
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Thanks for your input.
I find the H2O analogy to be odd. If you are talking about a numerical issue- why is the chemical analogy supposed to be relevant? Unless you are saying that God appears in three different "phases".
By the way- water has more than three phases.
Chair