What and who did Paul preach?

[Lon]

Again, blindness to Israel UNTIL... at the catching away of the body of Christ, Israel will once again be the focus of God's attention on the earth.

Thank you so much for taking the time. (uhhhggg) I'm reading as I'm writing and should read a bit more of Romans 11 at this venture but how do you read/take the warning of verse 21? Thank you. -Lon

 

[Right Divider]

Thank you so much for taking the time. (uhhhggg) I'm reading as I'm writing and should read a bit more of Romans 11 at this venture but how do you read/take the warning of verse 21? Thank you. -Lon

I always enjoy helping those that are open to help.

One thing that we know about verse 21 is that it cannot be warning the body of Christ. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit upon entry into the body and nothing can remove us.

Rom 8:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:1) [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

​

Rom 8:38-39 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (8:39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

​

The ones grafted in are NOT the body of Christ, as the body of Christ is a NEW CREATURE.
So all of the talk in chapter 11 is about gentiles with Israel before the present dispensation.

 

[Lon]

I always enjoy helping those that are open to help.

One thing that we know about verse 21 is that it cannot be warning the body of Christ. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit upon entry into the body and nothing can remove us.

Rom 8:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:1) [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

​

Rom 8:38-39 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:38) For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, (8:39) Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

​

The ones grafted in are NOT the body of Christ, as the body of Christ is a NEW CREATURE.
So all of the talk in chapter 11 is about gentiles with Israel before the present dispensation.

I appreciate the answer here too. It seemed to me it has to have such a take. The idea not to 'fear' but rather "'I'm a Baptist! God loves us!' yeah, don't do that. It isn't a group thing these days." Close?

 

[Right Divider]

I appreciate the answer here too. It seemed to me it has to have such a take. The idea not to 'fear' but rather "'I'm a Baptist! God loves us!' yeah, don't do that. It isn't a group thing these days." Close?

I cannot follow what you're saying.

In the previous dispensation, salvation was not immediate and permanent as it is now in the dispensation of the grace of God. This can be seen in verses like this:

1Pet 1:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. ​

 

[Gary K]

Again, we need a specific SCRIPTURE that Paul used during his ministry that he misunderstood. Then... we need the Lord Jesus Christ's correction.

I fully understand that Paul was in opposition to Christ and was changed on the road to Damascus. But we are talking about SPECIFIC SCRIPTURE here and not just about vague generalities here.

You're lost Gary K. You need to get saved first, then there is a chance that the Holy Spirit can help you understand the Word of God.

No thanks. You know what I said is true as well as I do. I'm done dealing on this with you as you're a petulant, childish, Pharisaical control freak and you'll never stop making demands until I submit to you and I never will.

 

[Lon]

I cannot follow what you're saying.

In the previous dispensation, salvation was not immediate and permanent as it is now in the dispensation of the grace of God. This can be seen in verses like this:

1Pet 1:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. ​

It seems v21 is talking about 'don't get prideful as a new member of the body.

 

[Right Divider]

It seems v21 is talking about 'don't get prideful as a new member of the body.

I have already explained why chapter 11 does not relate in any way to the body of Christ.
It's all about the Jews and gentiles before the present dispensation.

Rom 11:20-23 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: (11:21) For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. (11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (11:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.​

Do you really think that Christ will cut off His own body parts? (Hint: no, He will not).

Rom 5:11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:11) And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. ​

 

[Lon]

I have already explained why chapter 11 does not relate in any way to the body of Christ.
It's all about the Jews and gentiles before the present dispensation.

Rom 11:20-23 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: (11:21) For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. (11:22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (11:23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.​

Do you really think that Christ will cut off His own body parts? (Hint: no, He will not).

Rom 5:11 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:11) And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. ​

I missed it so thank you again. It is for sure that part of the video linked "That tree is not Christ!"

Have to watch the rest of the video now.

What I can grasp until I finish the video:
1) No, I have never thought that Christ would cut off His body.
2) As such, I have wrestled in the past with verses 17,21 and some of 18-20 -I just thought Paul was saying 'don't get cocky!'

Because of that, I've appreciated in the past where Mid Acts has given clarity to a few of these previously harder to discern points/passages and was looking forward to the response here (again ty).

3) Missed it until now, the full on Romans 11:17-23 in this discussion from the Mid Acts position (new to me). "That tree mentioned is not Christ" is the most important difference and I think has to be said to us who aren't Mid Acts or we'll likely have a hard time following (as I did).

I may yet not be picking up all you are meaning, simply I have not even entertained the Mid Acts position regarding Romans until now. I'll have to look for Romans discussion in the Mid Acts section (just the one video at this venture?). Thank you.

 

[Right Divider]

What I can grasp until I finish the video:
1) No, I have never thought that Christ would cut off His body.

That's good.

2) As such, I have wrestled in the past with verses 17,21 and some of 18-20 -I just thought Paul was saying 'don't get cocky!'

Yes, he is saying "don't get cocky"... it's just not to members of the body of Christ.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[Nick M]

In the previous dispensation, salvation was not immediate and permanent as it is now in the dispensation of the grace of God. This can be seen in verses like this:

Also, Peter states in Acts 15 they (Israel) will be saved (future) as we (gentiles) are. (present).

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

 

[Nick M]

I suppose that means Peter, the apostles, messianic Jews, might not be the remnant saved. I think that is another discussion.

 

[Lon]

I suppose that means Peter, the apostles, messianic Jews, might not be the remnant saved. I think that is another discussion.

I'd think it somewhat on point in this thread, I don't know, but great question. I wished I asked it.