Were There Two Different Jesuses?

[Ben Masada]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

When Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles to Theophilus, he guaranteed him that he had dealt with ALL that Jesus did and taught until the end of his life on earth. (Acts 1:1,2) If Luke is someone worthy believing, there must be something wrong with Matthew.

1 - I am not talking about the huge difference in the genealogy of Jesus. (Mat. 1:1-17)

2 - I am not talking about the anxiety of Mary to explain her pregnancy without having yet slept with Joseph. (Mat. 1:18-25)

3 - I am not talking about the Astrologers from the East who came to worship the newborn king of the Jews. (Mat. 2:1,2)

4 - I am not talking about the star that stood still over the place where the child was. (Mat. 2:9-11)

5 - I am not talking about the flight of the child to Egypt. (Mat. 2:13-15)

6 - I am not talking about the slaughtering of the innocent under the age of two with the Herodian intent to catch Jesus. (Mat. 2:16-18)

7 - I am not talking about a lot of other things that Luke ignored in his accurate account of EVERYTHING about Jesus to Theophilus.

Here's what I am talking about: While the Jesus of Matthew was still in Egypt, waiting for Herod to die, the Jesus of Luke was born, after eight days circumcised, on the 40th day presented in the Temple, and immediately after these requirements of the Law, the family headed back to Galilee, and to their own town of Nazareth. (Luke 2:21,22,39) Now, bear in mind that Jesus was only 40 days old when they headed back home to Nazareth.

In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was still trapped in Egypt waiting for the word of the "angel" with the news that Herod had finally died. Perhaps in order to spare the embarrassment, the age of this Jesus was omitted.

Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will be better off if we don't remove that stone. The smell will be too strong

 

[Jacob]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

When Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles to Theophilus, he guaranteed him that he had dealt with ALL that Jesus did and taught until the end of his life on earth. (Acts 1:1,2) If Luke is someone worthy believing, there must be something wrong with Matthew.

All that Jesus began to do and teach.

 

[Lon]

In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was still trapped in Egypt waiting for the word of the "angel" with the news that Herod had finally died. Perhaps in order to spare the embarrassment, the age of this Jesus was omitted.

Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will be better off if we don't remove that stone. The smell will be too strong

Uhmm, yeah, you don't care. Why would you think a discrepancy means 'not true?' :idunno: If you want to pick things apart, you certainly can but it doesn't look very honest or open to me. Isn't it really just a 'reason' to reject Christ Jesus as Lord and Messiah??? :think: Don't look for excuses, just reject Him boldly without 'lame' as an attempt? :wazzup:

 

[Ben Masada]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

Uhmm, yeah, you don't care. Why would you think a discrepancy means 'not true?' :idunno: If you want to pick things apart, you certainly can but it doesn't look very honest or open to me. Isn't it really just a 'reason' to reject Christ Jesus as Lord and Messiah??? :think: Don't look for excuses, just reject Him boldly without 'lame' as an attempt? :wazzup:

Christian preconceived notions! Lord, how hard I find to reach the other side when it stands on my way!

 

[Ben Masada]

All that Jesus began to do and teach.

Thanks Untellectual! The change into "began to do and teach" does not harm the point of the text because it is about the first days of Jesus on earth, considering that Luke denies the report of Matthew that Jesus was ever in Egypt. Matthew was always digging for prophecies to enhance Jesus' credibility and, to bring him from Egypt was a good one from Hosea 11:1. Never mind that the one called from Egypt is identified by name as being Israel and not Jesus.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks Untellectual! The change into "began to do and teach" does not harm the point of the text because it is about the first days of Jesus on earth, considering that Luke denies the report of Matthew that Jesus was ever in Egypt. Matthew was always digging for a prophecy to enhance Jesus' credibility and, to bring him from Egypt was a good one from Hosea 11:1. Never mind that the one called from Egypt is identified by name as being Israel and not Jesus.

I accept all four gospel accounts. They are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Israel was called out of Egypt.

Not everything in any one gospel account is contained in another.

 

[CherubRam]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

When Luke wrote Acts of the Apostles to Theophilus, he guaranteed him that he had dealt with ALL that Jesus did and taught until the end of his life on earth. (Acts 1:1,2) If Luke is someone worthy believing, there must be something wrong with Matthew.

1 - I am not talking about the huge difference in the genealogy of Jesus. (Mat. 1:1-17)

2 - I am not talking about the anxiety of Mary to explain her pregnancy without having yet slept with Joseph. (Mat. 1:18-25)

3 - I am not talking about the Astrologers from the East who came to worship the newborn king of the Jews. (Mat. 2:1,2)

4 - I am not talking about the star that stood still over the place where the child was. (Mat. 2:9-11)

5 - I am not talking about the flight of the child to Egypt. (Mat. 2:13-15)

6 - I am not talking about the slaughtering of the innocent under the age of two with the Herodian intent to catch Jesus. (Mat. 2:16-18)

7 - I am not talking about a lot of other things that Luke ignored in his accurate account of EVERYTHING about Jesus to Theophilus.

Here's what I am talking about: While the Jesus of Matthew was still in Egypt, waiting for Herod to die, the Jesus of Luke was born, after eight days circumcised, on the 40th day presented in the Temple, and immediately after these requirements of the Law, the family headed back to Galilee, and to their own town of Nazareth. (Luke 2:21,22,39) Now, bear in mind that Jesus was only 40 days old when they headed back home to Nazareth.

In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was still trapped in Egypt waiting for the word of the "angel" with the news that Herod had finally died. Perhaps in order to spare the embarrassment, the age of this Jesus was omitted.

Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will be better off if we don't remove that stone. The smell will be too strong

I do not know what you are doing wrong Ben, but you have been consistent about being wrong.

Ordinance of Purification
The ordinance which is required after the birth of a firstborn son.
The Ordinance of Purification: When the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed. Luke 2:22.

This ceremony of purification was given by God to the Jews as a part of the Mosaic Law. It is found in Leviticus 12:1-4.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean.
"And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
"Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary, until the days of her purification are completed." Leviticus 12:1-4.

According to the Mosaic Law, the mother of a new born child was considered unclean.
In the case of a birth of a son, the mother was banned from performing any religious duties for a period of 41 days, eight days prior to the circumcision plus thirty-three days following the circumcision.

Yahshua is born in Bethlehem.
Eight days later Yahshua is circumcised.
Forty days later Yahshua is brought to the temple and presented to Yahwah.
After forty days the Wise Men come to give gifts to Yahshua; afterward Joseph and his family flee to Egypt, but later they return to Nazareth when it is safe.

 

[Caino]

Ben points out the inconstancies of the human accounts about Jesus. What if he had the guts to point out the inconstancies of the Torah?

For me Ben, the Bible is as imperfect and human as should be expected. People spend too much effort trying to prove the Bible of the past to be divine rather than demonstrating the truth, beauty and goodness of the God of their personal faith today..

Jesus never gave a sermon about his mon and dad. Joseph was long gone before Jesus began his public teaching. Stories do change when retold and miss-remembered. Things do tend to get a little exaggerated for effect.

To me the Bible is terribly flawed yet, I believe, I have faith in Jesus Christ and his heavenly Father. Jesus is a spiritual presence right hear among us. That's a very remarkable thing, I'm a stickler for facts and details just like you, just like the Apostle Thomas and others that Jesus chose.

 

[Ktoyou]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?



Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will be better off if we don't remove that stone. The smell will be too strong

:wazzup:
No just the One. You do not like Jesus, now that is very clear! I think you are the stinker....................... pest too!

 

[Daniel1769]

There is no contradiction. Luke says that they took Jesus back to their own country. Matthew gives more details (Joseph's dream, etc.) So, they're two accounts of the same story, one emphasizing more details. A contradiction is when two things are stated and both cannot be true. This is not the case in the point you raise. This is a disingenuous statement on your part that doesn't deserve to be addressed, but I decided to address it anyway. Just more lies from you to try to prop up your religion. I'm not surprised. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

 

[Ben Masada]

I accept all four gospel accounts. They are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Israel was called out of Egypt.

Not everything in any one gospel account is contained in another.

One thing is to miss what another said; another much different is to say the opposite as in the case between Matthew and Luke. The reader has no other option but to think that they were talking about two different Jesuses.

 

[Ben Masada]

I do not know what you are doing wrong Ben, but you have been consistent about being wrong.

Yes, until you correct me with evidences that you too are not wrong.

Ordinance of Purification. The ordinance which is required after the birth of a firstborn son. The Ordinance of Purification: When the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed. Luke 2:22.

I wonder why Matthew did not know about that ordinance and sent Jesus to Egypt without it when it was part of the Law of Moses.(Mat. 2:14)

This ceremony of purification was given by God to the Jews as a part of the Mosaic Law. It is found in Leviticus 12:1-4.

Why then did Matthew ignore it? Probably because the writer of the gospel of Matthew was a Hellenist who ignored such a law.

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean.

That's not the point! The point is that Luke used that event in the life of Jesus and Matthew preferred not only to ignore it but also to deny it.

"And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. "Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary, until the days of her purification are completed." Leviticus 12:1-4.

That would be Jewish but Matthew, as I have said above was not one. He was a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's.

According to the Mosaic Law, the mother of a new born child was considered unclean. In the case of a birth of a son, the mother was banned from performing any religious duties for a period of 41 days, eight days prior to the circumcision plus thirty-three days following the circumcision.

I am aware of that. I am Jewish too. The point here is the contradictions between Luke and Matthew.

Yahshua is born in Bethlehem. Eight days later Yahshua is circumcised. Forty days later Yahshua is brought to the temple and presented to Yahwah.

And according to Luke 2:39, immediately after those rites of purification according to the Law, Luke sent his Jesus back home to Nazareth. In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was in Egypt. Don't you get the problem here?

After forty days the Wise Men come to give gifts to Yahshua; afterward Joseph and his family flee to Egypt, but later they return to Nazareth when it is safe.

So, the wise guys from the East came with the gifts when Jesus was almost month and a half? This thing sounds any thing but true. Only a Christian can take it and with a double dose of faith, I tell you.

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben points out the inconstancies of the human accounts about Jesus. What if he had the guts to point out the inconstancies of the Torah?

I have not run away from that. Try me. I am right here.

For me Ben, the Bible is as imperfect and human as should be expected. People spend too much effort trying to prove the Bible of the past to be divine rather than demonstrating the truth, beauty and goodness of the God of their personal faith today..

Every time Jesus referred to the Bible as the Word of God, he had the Tanach in mind. Are you implying that God is as imperfect as man?

Jesus never gave a sermon about his mon and dad. Joseph was long gone before Jesus began his public teaching. Stories do change when retold and miss-remembered. Things do tend to get a little exaggerated for effect.

So, why are you defending the NT which Jesus never even dreamed it would ever be written?

To me the Bible is terribly flawed yet, I believe, I have faith in Jesus Christ and his heavenly Father. Jesus is a spiritual presence right hear among us. That's a very remarkable thing, I'm a stickler for facts and details just like you, just like the Apostle Thomas and others that Jesus chose.

How can you believe that Jesus was a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman when, on the other hand you declare that your Bible is terribly flawed? (Mat. 1:18) I think you are terribly contradictory of your own self. No offense meant.

 

[Ben Masada]

:wazzup:
No just the One. You do not like Jesus, now that is very clear! I think you are the stinker....................... pest too!

I have absolutely nothing against Jesus. All my struggle is against those who have made of Jesus what he was not. A shame because to pick up a Jew to teach against his own Faith is no different from vandalism of a religion by another.

 

[Ben Masada]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

There is no contradiction. Luke says that they took Jesus back to their own country. Matthew gives more details (Joseph's dream, etc.) So, they're two accounts of the same story, one emphasizing more details. A contradiction is when two things are stated and both cannot be true. This is not the case in the point you raise. This is a disingenuous statement on your part that doesn't deserve to be addressed, but I decided to address it anyway. Just more lies from you to try to prop up your religion. I'm not surprised. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

Are you implying that to take Jesus to Egypt was not important to Luke? And to come down to Bethlehem, Luke came from the city of Nazareth in the North. Do you know where Joseph and Mary had come from when they went to Bethlehem? From Judea in the South. That's why I said not to remove all the stones in this story because it would stink beyond our nose could bear.

 

[Ben Masada]

Were There Two Different Jesuses?

There is no contradiction. Luke says that they took Jesus back to their own country. Matthew gives more details (Joseph's dream, etc.) So, they're two accounts of the same story, one emphasizing more details. A contradiction is when two things are stated and both cannot be true. This is not the case in the point you raise. This is a disingenuous statement on your part that doesn't deserve to be addressed, but I decided to address it anyway. Just more lies from you to try to prop up your religion. I'm not surprised. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?

I am not lying for saying the truth about Jesus. In your case, you are slandering him for comparing him to a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18) I'll tell you something else; if the dead could hear what the still living say about them, Jesus would turn in the grave.

 

[CherubRam]

Yes, until you correct me with evidences that you too are not wrong.



I wonder why Matthew did not know about that ordinance and sent Jesus to Egypt without it when it was part of the Law of Moses.(Mat. 2:14)



Why then did Matthew ignore it? Probably because the writer of the gospel of Matthew was a Hellenist who ignored such a law.



That's not the point! The point is that Luke used that event in the life of Jesus and Matthew preferred not only to ignore it but also to deny it.



That would be Jewish but Matthew, as I have said above was not one. He was a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's.



I am aware of that. I am Jewish too. The point here is the contradictions between Luke and Matthew.



And according to Luke 2:39, immediately after those rites of purification according to the Law, Luke sent his Jesus back home to Nazareth. In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was in Egypt. Don't you get the problem here?



So, the wise guys from the East came with the gifts when Jesus was almost month and a half? This thing sounds any thing but true. Only a Christian can take it and with a double dose of faith, I tell you.

The followers of Christ were not Hellenist Ben. There is no problem with Luke 2:39, because Luke skips the part about them going to Egypt, and speaks about Yahshua growing up in Galilee. Luke 2:40

 

[CherubRam]

In 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews took control of the people and temple, casting the priesthood out to go live in the desert. It was the Hellenistic Priest in Jerusalem that had Yahshua put to death by the Romans.

 

[Ben Masada]

In 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews took control of the people and temple, casting the priesthood out to go live in the desert. It was the Hellenistic Priest in Jerusalem that had Yahshua put to death by the Romans.

I would like to believe that if you had a quote to evidence what you say. Did you know that Paul was a Hellenist Jew too? That's why he had a terrible struggle against homosexual feelings. (Rom. 7:8-25)

 

[Bright Raven]

No! :duh: