ECT "...we shall be saved, even as they."-Acts 15:11 KJV

[john w]

Not paying attention to details, and, consistent with Paul’s admonition to “study”(1 Tim. 2:15 KJV), can get you killed(Numbers 16:31-34 KJV/2 Sam. 6:1-9 KJV). The secrets of the Holy Bible are in the details(Proverbs 20:5 KJV, Proverbs 25:2 KJV). Others, such as STP, Nick, heir, musterion, GM, Dano, DG, Tambora, RD, BR, PG, Steko. .....have written on this matter extensively, but most continually ignore it, because that is what they have learned from their SOF's at "church".....................

The BOC:

"For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: "The Holy Bible Eph. 2:8 KJV

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved(future salvation-my note), even as they. "-The Holy Bible Acts 15:11 KJV


Peter, one of the “12”,was addressing the Council in Jerusalem as they sought to answer the question of Acts 15:5 KJV, i.e., is it needful for the Gentiles to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses? In Acts 15:10 KJV, Peter argued that not even the Jew, who had the law ,could “bear” it. What hope was there for the Jew? Peter said, "we believe," i.e., we have a firm persuasion that salvation can only be attained by means of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Note “the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ”-details....

Did Peter mean the same thing that Paul preached to the Gentiles? Would he have agreed with Paul when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8 KJV, "For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith." Note Acts 15:11 KJV, carefully:

"We shall be saved, even as they."

We, the BOC, say we are saved-present tense. Peter said, "we shall be saved." For Peter, it is future. Now, let's look at details-the Holy Spirit is very careful in His choice of words-words do matter. The "we" refers to Peter and the fellow Jewish believers. The "they" refers to the Gentiles to whom Paul had been preaching. Notice that Peter did not say, "They shall be saved, even as we." Details. No. He said, rather, "We (Jews) shall be saved even as they (Gentiles).


When you study, and rightly divide this word of truth, there is consistency, and no contradictions. Study what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:9-10 KJV:

“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:”


Notice-details:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28 KJV

And-details:


“Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time……Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. “ 1 Peter 1:5-9 KJV


The body of Christ awaiting salvation? This couldn't be a reference to the Jews in the Great Tribulation, could it? Nah! one "the" church, one gospel, one inheritance(no distinction between earthly and heaven inheritance and reign), i.e., there is no such thing as different programs, as the prophetic program is equivalent to the mystery program! Peter was, of course, writing directly to the body of Christ! Follow Peter! Maybe the Roman Catholics "got it right"!

When will they be saved? Peter said that when that grace should come their sins would be blotted out. When? According to Peter's message in Acts 3:19 KJV it was to be "when the times of refreshing shall come." When will that be? According to the next verse, Acts 3:20 KJV, it is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth:

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:” The Holy Bible Acts 3:19-20 KJV

Read it-"when"...."the presence of the Lord"-His physical return

"send Jesus"-"the second time:"


Acts 7:13 KJV
"And at the second time Joseph was made known to his brethren; and Joseph's kindred was made known unto Pharaoh."

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

"Second Coming," folks.

In order for those under the law of Moses to be saved, they had to look for it. Many believers today cannot fathom a present tense salvation. We have seen that the law could not save anyone. But the grace of God does save and saves all who believe. Peter could not have written:


"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)." Eph. 1:7 KJV

“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you(present tense-my note) .” The Holy Bible Eph. 4:32 KJV

“In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)." Col. 1:14 KJV

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses(present tense-my note);” Col. 2:13 KJV

“Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you(present tense-my note) , so also do ye.” :” Col. 3:13 KJV

But Paul could, and did.

We have, as a present possession, redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have, as a present possession, the forgiveness of sins through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Colossians 1:21 KJV, the apostle Paul, our apostle, penned:

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”


Peter was speaking to those under the law, the Jews of Jerusalem. Peter said to them, "we shall be saved." They could not claim present tense salvation under the law. But they were, because of prophecy, looking for a new covenant, the New Covenant, made to them, “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah “, not the BOC, as stated in Jeremiah 31 KJV:


“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. “ Jer. 31:31-34 KJV

Read it-Rom. 11-"post cross:"

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Memorize it:For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Future, folks. This is not happening today.


Details-at that time God spoke to Israel through the prophet,

"..…I will forgive..…”, future tense, “.. their iniquity…, and I will remember…” future tense, “.. their sin no more."

The new covenant is concerning Israel, concerning the earthly kingdom of heaven on earth, as foretold through prophecy, by the prophetic program, not the mystery program. That was the future hope for God's chosen people, the house of Israel and the house of Judah-the believing remnant. They could not claim salvation until God did it by means of the New Covenant.

Israel has remission of their sins until the Lord Jesus Christ comes back, "the second time," and this is when they will receive the blotting out of their sins. This is when they receive their redemption.

Luke 21 KJV

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

When will the believing nation Israel get their redemption? When the Lord comes back.

So what do they have until that time? Remission of their sins.

We know that the redemption for Israel's sins was made possible by the cross....

Hebrews 9 KJV

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

By his sacrifice at the cross, the Lord Jesus Christ has obtained eternal redemption for Israel. This eternal redemption is part of their inheritance that they will receive.

Hebrews 9 KJV

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


This "eternal inheritance" is reserved in heaven(the kingdom of heaven upon the earth-"the gospel(good news) of the kingdom)for them, and will be given unto them at "the second time," the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10 KJV
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

1 Peter 1 KJV

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

So, when will their salvation be revealed?

"in the last time."

"6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


So, when will the believing remnant of the nation Israel be receiving the salvation of their souls?

When the Lord Jesus Christ, "the man of war," comes back-"the second time."

1 Peter 1 KJV

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

So, when will Israel be receiving "the grace?"

When the Lord Jesus Christ comes back-"the second time."

Again, Hebrews 9

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Once again, when will the believing remnant of the nation Israel be receiving the salvation of their souls?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ..

And just when will they get their redemption?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Luke 21 KJV.

And just when will they get their sins blotted out?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ- Acts 3 KJV.

And just when will they get the salvation of their souls?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ- Hebrews 9 KJV, 1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get their eternal inheritance?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get "the grace?"

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get the forgiveness of their sins?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Romans 11 KJV.

And just when will they get their New Covenant?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Romans 11 KJV.

So, what do they have now?

The remission of their sins, per Acts 2 KJV.

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the believing remnant of the nation Israel will receive the blotting out of their sins, redemption, grace, and the salvation of their souls. This is their New Covenant. God will remember their sin no more. This is their permanent and everlasting forgiveness.




Watch the "teeth grinders" go into a tail spin, burning up in the atmosphere, watch them pout, kick their feet, and accuse me of trying to gyp him out of their suckers/blow pops, as they grumble that I am a mean spirited, MAD wacko, who needs to be drugged up, and should repeat, as a good drone, like they are, that all of the bible "says the same thing."

This is the TTOTY(The Thread Of The Year), posted by the great, humble, saint John "House" W.....

Let the boos and/or accolades commence.........

 

[DAN P]

Not paying attention to details, and, consistent with Paul’s admonition to “study”(1 Tim. 2:15 KJV), can get you killed(Numbers 16:31-34 KJV/2 Sam. 6:1-9 KJV). The secrets of the Holy Bible are in the details(Proverbs 20:5 KJV, Proverbs 25:2 KJV). Others, such as STP, Nick, heir, musterion, GM, Dano, DG, Tambora, RD, BR, PG, Steko. .....have written on this matter extensively, but most continually ignore it, because that is what they have learned from their SOF's at "church".....................

The BOC:

"For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: "The Holy Bible Eph. 2:8 KJV

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved(future salvation-my note), even as they. "-The Holy Bible Acts 15:11 KJV


Peter, one of the “12”,was addressing the Council in Jerusalem as they sought to answer the question of Acts 15:5 KJV, i.e., is it needful for the Gentiles to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses? In Acts 15:10 KJV, Peter argued that not even the Jew, who had the law ,could “bear” it. What hope was there for the Jew? Peter said, "we believe," i.e., we have a firm persuasion that salvation can only be attained by means of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Note “the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ”-details....

Did Peter mean the same thing that Paul preached to the Gentiles? Would he have agreed with Paul when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8 KJV, "For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith." Note Acts 15:11 KJV, carefully:

"We shall be saved, even as they."

We, the BOC, say we are saved-present tense. Peter said, "we shall be saved." For Peter, it is future. Now, let's look at details-the Holy Spirit is very careful in His choice of words-words do matter. The "we" refers to Peter and the fellow Jewish believers. The "they" refers to the Gentiles to whom Paul had been preaching. Notice that Peter did not say, "They shall be saved, even as we." Details. No. He said, rather, "We (Jews) shall be saved even as they (Gentiles).


When you study, and rightly divide this word of truth, there is consistency, and no contradictions. Study what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:9-10 KJV:

“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:”


Notice-details:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28 KJV

And-details:


“Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time……Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. “ 1 Peter 1:5-9 KJV


The body of Christ awaiting salvation? This couldn't be a reference to the Jews in the Great Tribulation, could it? Nah! one "the" church, one gospel, one inheritance(no distinction between earthly and heaven inheritance and reign), i.e., there is no such thing as different programs, as the prophetic program is equivalent to the mystery program! Peter was, of course, writing directly to the body of Christ! Follow Peter! Maybe the Roman Catholics "got it right"!

When will they be saved? Peter said that when that grace should come their sins would be blotted out. When? According to Peter's message in Acts 3:19 KJV it was to be "when the times of refreshing shall come." When will that be? According to the next verse, Acts 3:20 KJV, it is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth:

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:” The Holy Bible Acts 3:19-20 KJV

Read it-"when"...."the presence of the Lord"-His physical return

"send Jesus"-"the second time:"


Acts 7:13 KJV
"And at the second time Joseph was made known to his brethren; and Joseph's kindred was made known unto Pharaoh."

Hebrews 9:28 KJV
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

"Second Coming," folks.

In order for those under the law of Moses to be saved, they had to look for it. Many believers today cannot fathom a present tense salvation. We have seen that the law could not save anyone. But the grace of God does save and saves all who believe. Peter could not have written:


"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)." Eph. 1:7 KJV

“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you(present tense-my note) .” The Holy Bible Eph. 4:32 KJV

“In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)." Col. 1:14 KJV

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses(present tense-my note);” Col. 2:13 KJV

“Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you(present tense-my note) , so also do ye.” :” Col. 3:13 KJV

But Paul could, and did.

We have, as a present possession, redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have, as a present possession, the forgiveness of sins through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Colossians 1:21 KJV, the apostle Paul, our apostle, penned:

“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”


Peter was speaking to those under the law, the Jews of Jerusalem. Peter said to them, "we shall be saved." They could not claim present tense salvation under the law. But they were, because of prophecy, looking for a new covenant, the New Covenant, made to them, “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah “, not the BOC, as stated in Jeremiah 31 KJV:


“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. “ Jer. 31:31-34 KJV

Read it-Rom. 11-"post cross:"

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Memorize it:For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Future, folks. This is not happening today.


Details-at that time God spoke to Israel through the prophet,

"..…I will forgive..…”, future tense, “.. their iniquity…, and I will remember…” future tense, “.. their sin no more."

The new covenant is concerning Israel, concerning the earthly kingdom of heaven on earth, as foretold through prophecy, by the prophetic program, not the mystery program. That was the future hope for God's chosen people, the house of Israel and the house of Judah-the believing remnant. They could not claim salvation until God did it by means of the New Covenant.

Israel has remission of their sins until the Lord Jesus Christ comes back, "the second time," and this is when they will receive the blotting out of their sins. This is when they receive their redemption.

Luke 21 KJV

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

When will the believing nation Israel get their redemption? When the Lord comes back.

So what do they have until that time? Remission of their sins.

We know that the redemption for Israel's sins was made possible by the cross....

Hebrews 9 KJV

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

By his sacrifice at the cross, the Lord Jesus Christ has obtained eternal redemption for Israel. This eternal redemption is part of their inheritance that they will receive.

Hebrews 9 KJV

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


This "eternal inheritance" is reserved in heaven(the kingdom of heaven upon the earth-"the gospel(good news) of the kingdom)for them, and will be given unto them at "the second time," the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10 KJV
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

1 Peter 1 KJV

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

So, when will their salvation be revealed?

"in the last time."

"6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


So, when will the believing remnant of the nation Israel be receiving the salvation of their souls?

When the Lord Jesus Christ, "the man of war," comes back-"the second time."

1 Peter 1 KJV

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

So, when will Israel be receiving "the grace?"

When the Lord Jesus Christ comes back-"the second time."

Again, Hebrews 9

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

Once again, when will the believing remnant of the nation Israel be receiving the salvation of their souls?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ..

And just when will they get their redemption?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Luke 21 KJV.

And just when will they get their sins blotted out?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ- Acts 3 KJV.

And just when will they get the salvation of their souls?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ- Hebrews 9 KJV, 1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get their eternal inheritance?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get "the grace?"

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-1 Peter 1 KJV.

And just when will they get the forgiveness of their sins?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Romans 11 KJV.

And just when will they get their New Covenant?

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-Romans 11 KJV.

So, what do they have now?

The remission of their sins, per Acts 2 KJV.

At the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, the believing remnant of the nation Israel will receive the blotting out of their sins, redemption, grace, and the salvation of their souls. This is their New Covenant. God will remember their sin no more. This is their permanent and everlasting forgiveness.




Watch the "teeth grinders" go into a tail spin, burning up in the atmosphere, watch them pout, kick their feet, and accuse me of trying to gyp him out of their suckers/blow pops, as they grumble that I am a mean spirited, MAD wacko, who needs to be drugged up, and should repeat, as a good drone, like they are, that all of the bible "says the same thing."

This is the TTOTY(The Thread Of The Year), posted by the great, humble, saint John "House" W.....

Let the boos and/or accolades commence.........

Hi and Acts 15:11 is a POWERFUL verse against Covenant Theology and Acts 2 and will be MUTE with no answer !!

You know that is hard to eat HUMBLE PIE , and at least serve some ICE CREAM with the PIE as you see , they will not answer !!

dan p

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[turbosixx]

Thanks for the detailed write up on your understanding. I will do my best to look at this without my preconceived notions.

 

[oatmeal]

Interesting thread.

A few verses and observations for your consideration.

Acts 15:7-11 KJV

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

There is a difference between Judeans and Gentiles from a categorical point of view, as we shall see below, but

There is no difference between Judeans and Gentiles when it comes to the how of receiving salvation. In this passage, Peter refers to the receiving of "the Holy Ghost" as that salvation. Ie, the gift from the Holy Spirit, God, who gave to us of His spirit, John 4:24, I John 4:13

There is no difference between Judeans and Gentiles when it comes to the how of receiving salvation. After all,there is only one Lord Jesus and only one God that raised him from the dead.

How is that gift of salvation/holy spirit/eternal life received?

Romans 10:9-10

When a person meets the two requirements of verse 9 they are saved, until they do that, their salvation is still a future possibility, should they, in the future, choose to meet those two requirements.

But when they do that, they shall be saved, immediately. Thus Paul could write, by revelation, by grace ye are saved.

Note: we are talking about receiving the gift of salvation, which is a different concept than who earned that salvation for us.

What is salvation? First it is a gift by God's grace, not of works, that is not of our works, Ephesians 2:8-9

A gift is not earned, it is not wages, if it was by our earning, it would not be a gift, but wages.

Death is the wages of sin, Romans 6:23, but the gift of God is eternal life, ie, salvation from eternal death

What part of us is eternal? We have three choices, I Thessalonians 5:23. Spirit, soul and body.

Bodies are flesh, when the soul dies, the body corrupts, the spirit is from God, referred to as seed, and as such is incorruptible, I Peter 1:23

Is salvation one thing or is it a package containing many things with many facets?

It is referred to as the gift of salvation, the gift of eternal life, holy spirit, incorruptible seed, Christ in you, the hope of glory, the new man, the inner man, etc.

What is to be done with salvation? Is is inert or do we have some responsibility and/or reasons and/or need to do something with it?

A gift of a toaster from your spouse could be exactly what you needed to toast bread and bagels, but if you do not use it, it remains dormant and for all practical purposes for which it was designed, useless and unprofitable.

It is in the using of that gift that we see the benefits of that gift.

Even if we never use it, the gift of eternal life is still eternal life, but as the exhortation in Timothy states, "lay hold of eternal life" ie, use it to benefit yourself and others.

and Philippians 2:12 "work out your salvation" ie, energize it, work it, the INNER man does not do you any good today, unless you work it OUT.

How do we work out our salvation, our inner man?

Romans 12:1-3, we are transformed by the renewing of our mind. We must do that renewing of our mind, God does not do that. The gift of salvation is that inner man that was created in righteousness and true holiness, but we must read the accompanying instructions, scripture, to put it to use in our daily living.

If we steal, are we living that salvation? No, we are justified, we are righteous, but neither of those two spiritual realities is an excuse to sin.

Ephesians 4:28 tells us to stop stealing....

When we have renewed our minds work to give to him that needeth, then in that category, we demonstrate from a spiritual and practical point of view, salvation in our lifestyle, not just as a dormant gift.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Thus salvation is spiritual potential to live a holy life that glorifies God.

As long as we remain ignorant of our responsibility to renew our minds to put that gift to use, it remains dormant and useless for our day to day living

What about Romans 5:9, I Thessalonians 1:10?

Those verses guarantee that we shall be saved, or delivered from the wrath to come, but are we yet? Not yet, for the wrath is not come for us to be saved from yet.

Thus there is a future aspect of salvation that we cannot energize now, but God will bring it to pass to save us from the wrath to come.

I Corinthians 10:32 All people fit into one of three categories by God's reckoning.

A person is either a Judean or a Gentile or the church of God, ie, a member in particular in the body of Christ.

Judeans remain Judeans until they do Romans 10:9-10 then they, (spiritually speaking, not necessarily practically speaking in the sense of using that gift), become the church of God

Like wise for Gentiles.

Gentiles are Gentiles until they are born again

Judeans are Gentiles until they are born again.

Once born again, they are no longer either, they are the church of God

Living a holy life is not the gateway to receiving the gift of salvation, but the gift of salvation, by believing and living accordingly, is the gateway to living a holy life.

 

[Cross Reference]

Where does one begin to sort out all that understanding conceived in confusion?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Cliff notes,

Peter's church (church of Matthew 16)- saved by grace at the 2nd coming, gates of hell will not prevent their resurrection
Paul's church (Body of Christ) -saved by grace now, resurrected already with Christ, waiting to simply be changed

No need to mix them and make a moulage out of it, right saint john?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

LA cannot discern between 144000 Jewish kings and priests inheriting a City, and multitudes in the Body of Christ (both Jew and Gentile) inheriting the heavens. Same Christ, same blood, same grace, different purpose, different inheritance, different timing.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

 

[oatmeal]

Interesting thread.

A few verses and observations for your consideration.

Acts 15:7-11 KJV

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

There is a difference between Judeans and Gentiles from a categorical point of view, as we shall see below, but

There is no difference between Judeans and Gentiles when it comes to the how of receiving salvation. In this passage, Peter refers to the receiving of "the Holy Ghost" as that salvation. Ie, the gift from the Holy Spirit, God, who gave to us of His spirit, John 4:24, I John 4:13

There is no difference between Judeans and Gentiles when it comes to the how of receiving salvation. After all,there is only one Lord Jesus and only one God that raised him from the dead.

How is that gift of salvation/holy spirit/eternal life received?

Romans 10:9-10

When a person meets the two requirements of verse 9 they are saved, until they do that, their salvation is still a future possibility, should they, in the future, choose to meet those two requirements.

But when they do that, they shall be saved, immediately. Thus Paul could write, by revelation, by grace ye are saved.

Note: we are talking about receiving the gift of salvation, which is a different concept than who earned that salvation for us.

What is salvation? First it is a gift by God's grace, not of works, that is not of our works, Ephesians 2:8-9

A gift is not earned, it is not wages, if it was by our earning, it would not be a gift, but wages.

Death is the wages of sin, Romans 6:23, but the gift of God is eternal life, ie, salvation from eternal death

What part of us is eternal? We have three choices, I Thessalonians 5:23. Spirit, soul and body.

Bodies are flesh, when the soul dies, the body corrupts, the spirit is from God, referred to as seed, and as such is incorruptible, I Peter 1:23

Is salvation one thing or is it a package containing many things with many facets?

It is referred to as the gift of salvation, the gift of eternal life, holy spirit, incorruptible seed, Christ in you, the hope of glory, the new man, the inner man, etc.

What is to be done with salvation? Is is inert or do we have some responsibility and/or reasons and/or need to do something with it?

A gift of a toaster from your spouse could be exactly what you needed to toast bread and bagels, but if you do not use it, it remains dormant and for all practical purposes for which it was designed, useless and unprofitable.

It is in the using of that gift that we see the benefits of that gift.

Even if we never use it, the gift of eternal life is still eternal life, but as the exhortation in Timothy states, "lay hold of eternal life" ie, use it to benefit yourself and others.

and Philippians 2:12 "work out your salvation" ie, energize it, work it, the INNER man does not do you any good today, unless you work it OUT.

How do we work out our salvation, our inner man?

Romans 12:1-3, we are transformed by the renewing of our mind. We must do that renewing of our mind, God does not do that. The gift of salvation is that inner man that was created in righteousness and true holiness, but we must read the accompanying instructions, scripture, to put it to use in our daily living.

If we steal, are we living that salvation? No, we are justified, we are righteous, but neither of those two spiritual realities is an excuse to sin.

Ephesians 4:28 tells us to stop stealing....

When we have renewed our minds work to give to him that needeth, then in that category, we demonstrate from a spiritual and practical point of view, salvation in our lifestyle, not just as a dormant gift.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Thus salvation is spiritual potential to live a holy life that glorifies God.

As long as we remain ignorant of our responsibility to renew our minds to put that gift to use, it remains dormant and useless for our day to day living

What about Romans 5:9, I Thessalonians 1:10?

Those verses guarantee that we shall be saved, or delivered from the wrath to come, but are we yet? Not yet, for the wrath is not come for us to be saved from yet.

Thus there is a future aspect of salvation that we cannot energize now, but God will bring it to pass to save us from the wrath to come.

I Corinthians 10:32 All people fit into one of three categories by God's reckoning.

A person is either a Judean or a Gentile or the church of God, ie, a member in particular in the body of Christ.

Judeans remain Judeans until they do Romans 10:9-10 then they, (spiritually speaking, not necessarily practically speaking in the sense of using that gift), become the church of God

Like wise for Gentiles.

Gentiles are Gentiles until they are born again

Judeans are Gentiles until they are born again.

Once born again, they are no longer either, they are the church of God

Living a holy life is not the gateway to receiving the gift of salvation, but the gift of salvation, by believing and living accordingly, is the gateway to living a holy life.

Therefore, the gift of salvation is not different for Judeans vs. Gentiles, it is the same gift to both, but the Judeans and Gentiles may have differing challenges to implement that gift

 

[Cross Reference]

LA cannot discern between 144000 Jewish kings and priests inheriting a City, and multitudes in the Body of Christ (both Jew and Gentile) inheriting the heavens. Same Christ, same blood, same grace, different purpose, different inheritance, different timing.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

And diffrent evangelists . . 144,000 of them!

 

[john w]

Yellow................................

Leviticus 3

1 And if his oblation be a sacrifice of peace offering, if he offer it of the herd; whether it be a male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the Lord. 2 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of his offering, and kill it at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron’s sons the priests shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about. 3 And he shall offer of the sacrifice of the peace offering an offering made by fire unto the Lord; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 4 and the two kidneys, and the fat that is on them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away. 5 And Aaron’s sons shall burn it on the altar upon the burnt sacrifice, which is upon the wood that is on the fire: it is an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord.

6 And if his offering for a sacrifice of peace offering unto the Lord be of the flock; male or female, he shall offer it without blemish. 7 If he offer a lamb for his offering, then shall he offer it before the Lord. 8 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of his offering, and kill it before the tabernacle of the congregation: and Aaron’s sons shall sprinkle the blood thereof round about upon the altar. 9 And he shall offer of the sacrifice of the peace offering an offering made by fire unto the Lord; the fat thereof, and the whole rump, it shall he take off hard by the backbone; and the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 10 and the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away. 11 And the priest shall burn it upon the altar: it is the food of the offering made by fire unto the Lord.

12 And if his offering be a goat, then he shall offer it before the Lord. 13 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of it, and kill it before the tabernacle of the congregation: and the sons of Aaron shall sprinkle the blood thereof upon the altar round about. 14 And he shall offer thereof his offering, even an offering made by fire unto the Lord; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 15 and the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away. 16 And the priest shall burn them upon the altar: it is the food of the offering made by fire for a sweet savour: all the fat is the Lord’s. 17 It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood.


Genesis-Revelation.


So there.

 

[john w]

Where does one begin to sort out all that understanding conceived in confusion?

Translated: I, Crosswits, am not in the same league, biblically, as the great saint John W, so, as is my MO, I will just sling mud, a few sound bytes, w/o scripture, "cuz" I cannot "connect the dots," due to 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, in hopes I can woo the crowd, and also concede that I have "added nothing" to John W(Gal. 2:6 KJV), or this thread, or TOL.

My brilliant post stands. You-sit. Please be seated. We are all busy men, women.

My post


Vs.


Crosswits' "post"


Contrasts.

 

[john w]

Cliff notes,

Peter's church (church of Matthew 16)- saved by grace at the 2nd coming, gates of hell will not prevent their resurrection
Paul's church (Body of Christ) -saved by grace now, resurrected already with Christ, waiting to simply be changed

No need to mix them and make a moulage out of it, right saint john?

Correctamundo, Mayor! Wonder what causes Blender Bible "Study?" Curious...

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Correctamundo, Mayor! Wonder what causes Blender Bible "Study?" Curious...

I believe it is a mixture of Breenism, Tuckerism, and good ole fashioned Aleister Crowleyism.

 

[john w]

I believe it is a mixture of Breenism, Tuckerism, and good ole fashioned Aleister Crowleyism.

With a bit of Burt the "saleman," not wanting to be "too pushy." Its a clear case of rabble rousing against Paul, and intimidation.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The disciples received the Holy Spirit. How? By the blood of the Lamb. By Grace. The same way we all can commune with God and fellowship with Him through Jesus. This is necessary for us all. This is the point of it all.
Romans 14:17 "For the Kingdom of God is... of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The disciples received the Holy Spirit. How? By the blood of the Lamb. By Grace.

You missed it.
You should reread (or just read) saint john w's post.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

You missed it.
You should reread (or just read) saint john w's post.

The only way they are reconciled is by His blood, by grace. He desires fellowship, He is not playing favorites. One way!

 

[john w]

You missed it.
You should reread (or just read) saint john w's post.

Yes, Mayor, it's another clear cut case of one being inarculated by their Pastor Demas/Judas.

Ever notice that I have had 3 birthdays in the last 12 months, on TOL? It is sorta like when Hawkeye Pierce convince Frank Burns to call his stockbroker in the states, and sell all of his current stock positions, and buy "Jet Electric," even though no such company existed-he made it up!

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The Spirit guides us into truth.