WE MUST REPENT AT THE TIME OF OUR SALVATION?

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Grosnick Marowbe

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Some on TOL believe that we MUST repent of our sins. I would ask them what is their definition of repent?

1) Does it mean to, "change our mind?"
2) Does it mean to, "Give up all our sins?"
3) Does it mean to, "Trust the indwelt Holy
Spirit to help us give up our sins?"
4) Does it mean to, "Work on giving up our
sins on our own?"

What is your definition of "Repent?" If it means to give up ALL our sins before God will save us,that may take years? If it means, to change our mind, what are we changing our mind about?

Without being saved and going through the Spiritual process of hearing the Gospel, placing our faith in Christ, being indwelt, sealed and baptized (not by water) by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, how else would we be able to overcome sin in our life?

Furthermore, since we must live out our lives in the flesh, our flesh is weak according to the Apostle Paul. The Bible says in 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." The truth of the matter is, Paul says in Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" The true Believer is told in Philippians 3:9 "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" Therefore, at the time of our salvation we receive the righteousness of Christ.

Also, 2 Corinthians 5:21 states: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." So, in our Spiritual position we are in Christ and Christ is in us. We have the righteousness of Christ and God sees us as such. However, while in or flesh, we are still susceptible to commit sin. 1 John 2:1 states: "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" As long as we dwell in the flesh sin will be a problem for the believer. However, in our "position" that we hold in the Body of Christ, we are without sin, and have the righteousness of Christ and are forever a child of God. That's something we can NEVER lose.

Can we discontinue to sin while in the flesh 100%? The answer is, No. We must also recognize that Christ took care of the "Sin Question" 2000 years ago. He paid the price for ALL of humanities sins. However, only those who place ALL of their faith in Christ and nothing in themselves or anything else will reap the benefits. Those who reject the Gospel will be judged by God for their "Works" and be cast into the Lake of fire for eternity.

 
jamie

jamie

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
Some on TOL believe that we MUST repent of our sins. I would ask them what is their definition of repent?
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G3340 metanoeō From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
(Strong's Concordance)
 
jamie

jamie

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
baptized (not by water) by the Holy Spirit...
Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit baptizes through humans.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ working in tandem to accomplish God's will.

God and Christ exist in the spiritual dimension called heaven and they do their work through the Holy Spirit, the mechanism by which they accomplish things in the physical dimension through humans.
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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Absolutely. Repentance is a change of mind, involves agreement with God as to the issues. This has nothing to do with the fact that all come to God as sinners, nor having ceased from sin to be saved. I like to most think of it as agreement with God about our sin issue, convicted of sin in our hearts, of our need for salvation, our unrighteousness, as opposed to His holiness, His righteousness, and our need for salvation by the blood of Jesus Christ and faith in Him to save.

It's absurd, this heretical concept going around these days, that people don't need to repent. This is saying you don't even need to agree with God you're a sinner and need salvation, one can only suppose could even worship the devil and be saved, if no change of mind is required to be saved, no Holy Spirit conviction of sin. There is no such thing as saving "head faith" that doesn't take the issues to heart. Look at Luke 18:10-14 for an example of a repentant man, broken in his sin, humble before God and mourning his sin, the publican.

But this is apart from progressive sanctification, where the born again believer grows in faith, walks in the Spirit, becomes more conformed to the image of Christ as a saved believer. Repentance does result in a change of action, though, since one has come to agree with God as to the evil of sin and, in that change of mind, we have a desire to turn from evil. The best example of repentance in the Bible is this, a change of mind, which results in a change of action:

Matthew 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

Greek:

Metanoia (met-an'-oy-ah);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine

a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done; change in one's way of life resulting from penitence or spiritual conversion; especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life, so that it embraces both a recognition of sin and sorrow for it and hearty amendment; that change of mind by which we turn from, desist from, the old behavior; a reversal of decision

Thayer then defines the noun metanoia as 1. A change of mind, as it appears in one who repents of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done. He also continues with: "The change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life... the tokens and effects of which are good deeds." Thayer further states that metanoia is "that change of mind by which we turn from, desist from dead works."

Repentance doesn't necessarily involve sin, this just our issue with God we must repent of. God repented in the Old Testament as to, for instance, destroying Nineveh, He, or course, merely changing His mind, repentance in this light a good illustration of a change of mind, that resulted in a different action.

This is such a super important issue, as many will be damned, who signed up for some sort of religion, some false and half gospels going around, who never repented, never came broken, to the foot of the cross of our Lord Jesus. Many remain a friend of the world, thinking watered-down religion, absent repentance, can save, that they can be a friend of the world and a friend of God. This, of course, is not repentance, that turns from the things of the world and turns to God. Again, this idea we don't even need to change our minds and come to agree with God as to the issues, and can, despite, be saved, is just absurd.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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WonderfulLordJesus said:
Absolutely. Repentance is a change of mind, involves agreement with God as to the issues.
Click to expand...

Not a few think that repentance is saying a prayer, sorrowful weeping, and some regret. No doubt there is an aspect of these things that may accompany repentance. But the very word repentance is pregnant with the view of actually turning from one's sins. We know from Scripture that the unregenerate cannot turn from their sins until regenerated. Repentance is a fruit of the faith (faith being the first fruit of regneration) that comes from regeneration. Never in Scripture is repentance given a treatment that implies repentance is means to our being born-again versus the way faith is credited with the instrumentality of accomplishing one's re-birth (e.g. Eph. 2:8).

Repentance and faith are both necessary for salvation, but they are related to justification in different ways. Faith alone is the instrument by which Christ is received and rested on as Savior. Justification is by faith, not by repentance. But faith (and therefore justification) cannot exist without repentance. Repentance is as necessary to salvation by faith as the ankle is to walking. The one does not act apart from the other. I cannot come to Christ in faith without turning from sin in repentance. As one cannot have true faith without faith yielding works, so one cannot have true faith without simultaneously having repentance. Genuine repentance is the proof of one's faith.

Because of the close association between faith and repentance in Scripture (e.g., Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21; Hebrews 6:1), when we talk about conversion in terms of the logical order of salvation, we often speak of these two as alternate sides of one coin, or some similar analogy. In general, then, repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) is the ordinary, proper, and reasonable heartfelt reflex of saving faith (Heb.10:39).

The Pharisees demonstrated the exact opposite reaction (Matthew 21:32). This does not negate the historical experience of salvation, whereby we are often brought to great hatred and disgust at our own sin, and turn from it to look unto Jesus (Heb.12:2), the object of our faith. But it is not the turning that delivers us nor the faculty of faith (nothing in man), but Christ the object of faith outside of man. Nor should we wish to deny that further acts of repentance even after we "first believed" may feel stronger than our earlier repentance. This only makes sense, as stronger faith only opens our heart's understanding further, both to the nature and corruption of sin, as well as the surpassing greatness of the Savior. This is but growth in grace.

“Then God also granted repentance to life to the Gentiles” (Act 11.18). The Arminians hold that it is in our power to repent. Error! We can harden our hearts, but we cannot soften them. This crown of freewill has fallen from our head. There is not only impotency in us, but obstinacy (Acts 7:51). As Thomas Watson once wrote, therefore beg God for a repentant spirit. He can make the stony heart bleed. His is a word of creative power. See here.

AMR
 
jamie

jamie

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
In Matthew 3:11 John the Baptist is stating: "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
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John baptized for repentance but he did not have the authority to give the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands. (Acts 19:2-6)
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

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Ask Mr. Religion said:
Not a few think that repentance is saying a prayer, sorrowful weeping, and some regret. No doubt there is an aspect of these things that may accompany repentance. But the very word repentance is pregnant with the view of actually turning from one's sins. We know from Scripture that the unregenerate cannot turn from their sins until regenerated. Repentance is a fruit of the faith (faith being the first fruit of regneration) that comes from regeneration. Never in Scripture is repentance given a treatment that implies repentance is means to our being born-again versus the way faith is credited with the instrumentality of accomplishing one's re-birth (e.g. Eph. 2:8).

Repentance and faith are both necessary for salvation, but they are related to justification in different ways. Faith alone is the instrument by which Christ is received and rested on as Savior. Justification is by faith, not by repentance. But faith (and therefore justification) cannot exist without repentance. Repentance is as necessary to salvation by faith as the ankle is to walking. The one does not act apart from the other. I cannot come to Christ in faith without turning from sin in repentance. As one cannot have true faith without faith yielding works, so one cannot have true faith without simultaneously having repentance. Genuine repentance is the proof of one's faith.

Because of the close association between faith and repentance in Scripture (e.g., Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21; Hebrews 6:1), when we talk about conversion in terms of the logical order of salvation, we often speak of these two as alternate sides of one coin, or some similar analogy. In general, then, repentance unto life (Acts 11:18) is the ordinary, proper, and reasonable heartfelt reflex of saving faith (Heb.10:39).

The Pharisees demonstrated the exact opposite reaction (Matthew 21:32). This does not negate the historical experience of salvation, whereby we are often brought to great hatred and disgust at our own sin, and turn from it to look unto Jesus (Heb.12:2), the object of our faith. But it is not the turning that delivers us nor the faculty of faith (nothing in man), but Christ the object of faith outside of man. Nor should we wish to deny that further acts of repentance even after we "first believed" may feel stronger than our earlier repentance. This only makes sense, as stronger faith only opens our heart's understanding further, both to the nature and corruption of sin, as well as the surpassing greatness of the Savior. This is but growth in grace.

“Then God also granted repentance to life to the Gentiles” (Act 11.18). The Arminians hold that it is in our power to repent. Error! We can harden our hearts, but we cannot soften them. This crown of freewill has fallen from our head. There is not only impotency in us, but obstinacy (Acts 7:51). As Thomas Watson once wrote, therefore beg God for a repentant spirit. He can make the stony heart bleed. His is a word of creative power. See here.

AMR
Click to expand...

You and your ilk believe that one must first be regenerated before receiving saving faith. That's the equivalent of saying, One must be saved before becoming saved. No logic there my friend.
 
Nang

Nang

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Grosnick Marowbe said:
You and your ilk believe that one must first be regenerated before receiving saving faith. That's the equivalent of saying, One must be saved before becoming saved. No logic there my friend.
Click to expand...

You seem to think that sinners want to be saved, but they don't. Not a one.

God must first change the human heart, mind, and will to want to believe and turn away from sin. And that miracle is called "regeneration."

It is equivalent to being brought to life from death. Only God has such resurrection powers.

Denial of this miracle, is to think sinners have spiritual capacities to believe abiding in them, when they do not. Denial of this miracle is to think sinners have virtue inherent to their nature to want to turn from sin, but they do not. Denial of this miracle was the belief of Pelagius, who the church body condemned as being heretical. Of such belief is your ilk.
 
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