ECT Water or No Water?

[HisServant]

You said scripture was "full" of people receiving the Holy Spirit before baptism. I only know of three and all were special situations.



I agree, such as the catholics who instruct to do things not found in scripture, but if we are instructed through scripture shouldn't we do those things.

I don't see water baptism explicitly instructed... if anything John the Baptist said it was only temporal... and I see the Apostles very confused about it... so much so that Paul stopped baptizing because it was so divisive, and we have no record that he had other people baptize for him.

Baptism never inferred water back when the Apostles preached... most of the baptisms mention in scripture do not have anything do do with water... like Jesus' last baptism.

Baptism infers going through a process and coming out materially changed.... water washing cannot do that.

 

[turbosixx]

I don't see water baptism explicitly instructed...

What is Jesus instructing here?
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Peter seem to understand the need for water baptism so much that he commanded those who had been "Holy Spirit baptized" to be baptized with water.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Baptism never inferred water back when the Apostles preached... most of the baptisms mention in scripture do not have anything do do with water... like Jesus' last baptism.

I'm not sure where you are getting that idea, please explain.
If not water why would the eunuch ask this after being taught Jesus?
Acts 8:36....See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Baptism infers going through a process and coming out materially changed.... water washing cannot do that.

I would suggest it's much the same as Namaan in 2 Kings 5. The waters of the Jordon didn't cleanse him of leprosy it was his obedience to God's word. The ONLY way he was going to be cleansed was to dip. Look at what Peter says baptism is and is not.

not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

The bible tells us baptism is a pledge, but people today will tell you to make that pledge one must say the sinners prayer. I do not see that anywhere in scripture.

 

[HisServant]

What is Jesus instructing here?
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Peter seem to understand the need for water baptism so much that he commanded those who had been "Holy Spirit baptized" to be baptized with water.

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.




I'm not sure where you are getting that idea, please explain.
If not water why would the eunuch ask this after being taught Jesus?
Acts 8:36....See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?




I would suggest it's much the same as Namaan in 2 Kings 5. The waters of the Jordon didn't cleanse him of leprosy it was his obedience to God's word. The ONLY way he was going to be cleansed was to dip. Look at what Peter says baptism is and is not.

not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

The bible tells us baptism is a pledge, but people today will tell you to make that pledge one must say the sinners prayer. I do not see that anywhere in scripture.

And I would tell you that Jesus and the Apostles prohibited pledges... vows and oaths of any kind.

Simply because we are human and cannot keep them. So why would God order us to do something that he knows is not within our power to adhere to?

After all, inst that why he sent the Holy Spirit to begin with?... to guide us instead of making us obey?