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Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified or was His humanity simply speaking from a divine disposition?
I sincerely ask without a religious agenda.
I sincerely ask without a religious agenda.
Was the man Jesus God before He was Glorified . . . .
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John 1:18a ASV
18a No man hath seen God at any time;
1 John 4:12a ASV
12a No man hath beheld God at any time:
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And your point is, what?
The Father speaks telepathically, we don't actually hear his voice.
The Father told Jesus what to say and what to do just like he did Jesus' apostles.
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. . . as the "Word made flesh" now glorified by Him [made permanent] because of His obedience per Hebrews 2:10 and Phil 2:12 KJV.
"made permanent?"
The designation Eternal Son, Yah Shua, is in and of itself permanent.
Those passages state what they state, (emphatically), and make my point for me. One either believes them, and incorporates what they say into his or her doctrine, or one does not.
oatmeal
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Jesus Christ is a prophet the son of God.
Every son has an origin and originator.
Jesus Christ did not exist before his conception and birth. Matthew 1:18
However, we read in John 1:1 That the word, the logos was in the beginning and that the word was God and the word was with God.
So we must ask, who or what is the word?
Since word, logos means message or more specifically the thought behind the words used in a message, we must look how God who is the logos choose to communicate himself to mankind.
We can see that the two major ways is by His written word and by the word in the flesh, or Jesus Christ.
Did God have a stash of Bibles in the beginning? Of course not, but did God in all his wisdom and foreknowledge know what He would author and have written as His word? Yes.
Was Jesus with God in the beginning? No, he was not, no more than God had a stash of Bibles inventoried to pass out. But in God's wisdom and foreknowledge He already knew that Jesus Christ would successfully do the Father's will.
Jesus Christ was in the foreknowledge of God. God speaks of those things which be not as though they were. Romans 4
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After the fact, you are correct. However, the man Jesus was made vulnerable [by God] and had He failed we would not be here having this chit-chat.
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Check this out:
17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Exodus 33:17-23 (KJV)
Side note: Read to see grace is merited and not unmerited as some believe it is.
It was failsafe. Messiah actually stated, "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do", Before He was taken to Golgotha.
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What you quote was said by Jesus AFTER He finished His mission; the conclusion of His faithfulness before His transfiguration on the Mt after which He came down and went to the cross to enable those who would be born again [John 20.22] to follow in His steps. . . and for the same reason
Beyond that I can't figure out what you are trying to say in your comment.
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Jesus had to be proven.
Jesus means Savior and Christ means King.
Jesus Christ was foreordained King and Savior before the first Adam.
Jesus Christ is the last Adam.
"And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man." (1 Corinthians 15:49)
Christ is from the Greek Christo which means anointed. The Greeks considered all their idols to be anointed and so to count Yah Shua amongst idols is an abomination. The term in Hebrew is mashiach which is transliterated correctly as Messiah and is a title meaning Anointed of Yah Veh.
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jsanford108
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jsanford108
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John's Gospel proves all of this wrong. It literally points (literally being a reference to actual literature) to Christ being the Word Incarnate. Thus, you entire prose on Jesus not being in the Beginning with God is entirely false.
The analogy with a Bible stash is also completely off. The Word of God is more than just the Bible: it is reality itself. When God speaks (hence, the "Word of God") reality itself comes into being.
Furthermore, in Genesis, God says "Let us make man in our image." God could not have been speaking to the Angels, for they are not like man. Nor is their image static. However, Christ, being One with God, who would become man, would logically have an image, that man could be formed in likeness of. Thus, from before the inception of man, Christ was with God, as supported and derived from the Scriptures.
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