ECT WAS PAUL BAPTIZED ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
It's common sense - we are saved by grace and most Christians also get baptized, c'mon Dan
turbosixx
New member
Do you understand the reason Jesus said, "make disciples baptizing them in the name of" and "believeth and has been baptized shall be saved"?
Paul says IF we "5...have become united with Him in the likeness of His death,"
That is what baptism is, when we are buried in the water we are "buried with Him through baptism into death."Rom. 6:4
Col. 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism,
As Christians we look back at that death (we died with him) by taking communion.
It's the foundation of Christianity. Christ died for us and we die with him in baptism. That's why Paul asks 13 Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
Hi and it was DONE so when it became 2016 , dan p was there to refute you and that God does what He wants to do !!
Water Baptism is always called for UNDER the Law !!
I believe it was done to get Pentecostals attention that things are going to change !Q!
And they did with a New Apostle with more authORTY Than the 12 as Paul was greater than the 12 as Paul can forgive in the person of Jesus Christ !!
dan p
Hi and WATER BAPTISM is done How , by IMMERSION , you say ??
Matt 28 :19 says differently , does it not , so who are you BLOVIATING TOO ??
You all have not even COME close to how Paul was BAPTIZE NOR would understand it , EVEN if I told you !!
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Me and most everyone else who is honestly looking for truth.
Please explain.
Hi and glad you asked me !!
One of the KEY words in Matt 28:19 is the Greek word NATIONS / ETHNOS which can be translated by the following English word !!
RACE
GENTILES
HEATHEN
Jewish Nation and I like proving it ,and is found in John 11:48 , 50 , and verswe 51 for we see that word NATIONS can be translated JEWISH NATION !!
And verse 20 means that you KEEP the LAW of MOSES !!
So when are you all going to CONVERT to Judaism ??
dan p
dodge
New member
You ares sounding more and more like a Roman Catholic with a pope. YOU are IGNORING everything and everyone except what you mistakenly believe about Paul.
Paul had no authority that ALL the Apostles didn't have.
Paul could NOT forgive anyone's sin. FYI, Paul is NOT God, and only God can forgive sin.
turbosixx
New member
If we look at the same conversation in Mark what do we see?
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Is this only the Jewish nation?
Can you show after this verse where they taught keep the law of Moses?
Hi and it is to Jews ONLY , period !
In Mark 16:15-18 is still water BAPTISM !!
And what shall follow this believers , , Cast out Demons , speak with new tongues , heal the Sick , take up Serpents and can drink any DEADLY THING , so does this describe you ??
dan p
Hi and it is to Jews ONLY , period !
In Mark 16:15-18 is still water BAPTISM !!
And what shall follow this believers , , Cast out Demons , speak with new tongues , heal the Sick , take up Serpents and can drink any DEADLY THING , so does this describe you ??
Ever where you see the word SHALL in verse 18 is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE and that speaks to the Great Tribulation !!
dan p
Hi and just WHEN have you seen Jewish Rabbi teachers , preaching to GENTILES , you are KIDDING , RIGHT !!
Since you believe in IMMERSION and TONGUES have you changed to a JEWISH program , IF you have not , when are you changing ??
dan p
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Hi and there are 2 groups that say Paul was WATER BAPTIZED and they are Acts 13 and Acts 28er !!
dan p
Actually, many Pastor-Teachers who hold to a Mid-Acts Perspective also hold that Paul was water baptized.
Their reasoning?
I hold their same view on this; based on the following, simply from time in the Scripture studying it out.
That...anyone can do.
But the reason for said view is because water baptism is an Israelite rite having to do with outer purification under the Law.
It is why Paul relates the following to his fellow Israelites - that they might recognize that he has not done anything contrary to the Law.
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Later; Peter, as one of the Twelve Apostles of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, writing to them, reminds them...
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
In other words, water baptism was one of various, or diverse Israelite washings that God had commanded Israel through Moses in the Law for the symbolic putting away of the filthiness of the flesh, that an Israelite's answer of a good conscience toward God would engage in as a symbolic means of ritual purification before he could approach serving God.
Why was Paul in trouble with those people to begin with?
For why he was in trouble to begin with, was exactly why he even mentioned his having been water baptized.
Why was Paul in trouble?
Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Some were falsely claiming that he was teaching things against Israel, and the Law, and the Temple, and that he had polluted the Temple by having brought a unclean Gentile into the Temple - all Israelite issues under Moses.
Paul's defense? That no; that he had not violated the Law.
His entire defense is from THEIR perspective: the Law of Moses - he even speaks it all in Hebrew to them.
Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
"Nope" he basically asserts "no Law breaker am I" - he even resorts to speaking in Hebrew to them; that their be no uncertainty that he is one of their own.
Later, he again brings up his "good conscience towards God" according to the Law...
Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. 23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. 23:3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? 23:4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? 23:5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.
Paul is being accused of having violated the Law of Moses; even to the point of having ended up unclean as viewed under the Law.
Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: 24:6 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.
His defense?
That no; he had neither violated the Law, nor become unclean - that he has followed its diverse purification rituals.
Acts 24:11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 24:12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. 24:17 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. 24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult. 24:19 Who ought to have been here before thee, and object, if they had ought against me. 24:20 Or else let these same here say, if they have found any evil doing in me, while I stood before the council,
In his defense of that he also relates the following to them all, as Israelites -who know that water baptism is a cleansing ritual under the Law.
He does not simply mention Ananias. He mentions Ananias is a devout man.
In what sense?
In line with what standard?
Their standard as Israelites - "according to the law..." and then some...
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul is asserting that his behavior has been that of one chosen unto the service of God by the God of THEIR fathers Himself.
By the way, that is also why he refers to God by a title for Him known by Israelites - The Everlasting God, Isaiah 40:28 - in the following; where he is once more asserting Who it was Who gave him his authority.
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Also, the occasion of why Paul even brought up his having been water baptized "according to the law" sheds light on why Peter found himself water baptizing Cornelius and his house after, not before, they had submitted to Israel's water purification ritual under the Law.
But this post is long winded enough.
Suffice it to say that built into how the Mid-Acts Perspective not only re-emerged, but how it approaches solving for these seeming puzzles, as a result, is the very means for doing so without having to resort to one's own reasoning just so that a thing that does not appear to make sense, somehow make sense.
It's not neccessary.
If there is one difference between how the majority of Mid-Acts Pastor-Teachers approach these things, and a small few within Mid-Acts do here and there do, thus, their ending up left field of said majority...that...is it.
Their reasoning?
I hold their same view on this; based on the following, simply from time in the Scripture studying it out.
That...anyone can do.
But the reason for said view is because water baptism is an Israelite rite having to do with outer purification under the Law.
It is why Paul relates the following to his fellow Israelites - that they might recognize that he has not done anything contrary to the Law.
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Later; Peter, as one of the Twelve Apostles of the Twelve Tribes of Israel, writing to them, reminds them...
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
In other words, water baptism was one of various, or diverse Israelite washings that God had commanded Israel through Moses in the Law for the symbolic putting away of the filthiness of the flesh, that an Israelite's answer of a good conscience toward God would engage in as a symbolic means of ritual purification before he could approach serving God.
Why was Paul in trouble with those people to begin with?
For why he was in trouble to begin with, was exactly why he even mentioned his having been water baptized.
Why was Paul in trouble?
Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Some were falsely claiming that he was teaching things against Israel, and the Law, and the Temple, and that he had polluted the Temple by having brought a unclean Gentile into the Temple - all Israelite issues under Moses.
Paul's defense? That no; that he had not violated the Law.
His entire defense is from THEIR perspective: the Law of Moses - he even speaks it all in Hebrew to them.
Acts 21:39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you. 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,) 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
"Nope" he basically asserts "no Law breaker am I" - he even resorts to speaking in Hebrew to them; that their be no uncertainty that he is one of their own.
Later, he again brings up his "good conscience towards God" according to the Law...
Acts 23:1 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. 23:2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. 23:3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? 23:4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? 23:5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.
Paul is being accused of having violated the Law of Moses; even to the point of having ended up unclean as viewed under the Law.
Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: 24:6 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.
His defense?
That no; he had neither violated the Law, nor become unclean - that he has followed its diverse purification rituals.
Acts 24:11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship. 24:12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city: 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. 24:17 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings. 24:18 Whereupon certain Jews from Asia found me purified in the temple, neither with multitude, nor with tumult. 24:19 Who ought to have been here before thee, and object, if they had ought against me. 24:20 Or else let these same here say, if they have found any evil doing in me, while I stood before the council,
In his defense of that he also relates the following to them all, as Israelites -who know that water baptism is a cleansing ritual under the Law.
He does not simply mention Ananias. He mentions Ananias is a devout man.
In what sense?
In line with what standard?
Their standard as Israelites - "according to the law..." and then some...
Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Paul is asserting that his behavior has been that of one chosen unto the service of God by the God of THEIR fathers Himself.
By the way, that is also why he refers to God by a title for Him known by Israelites - The Everlasting God, Isaiah 40:28 - in the following; where he is once more asserting Who it was Who gave him his authority.
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
Also, the occasion of why Paul even brought up his having been water baptized "according to the law" sheds light on why Peter found himself water baptizing Cornelius and his house after, not before, they had submitted to Israel's water purification ritual under the Law.
But this post is long winded enough.
Suffice it to say that built into how the Mid-Acts Perspective not only re-emerged, but how it approaches solving for these seeming puzzles, as a result, is the very means for doing so without having to resort to one's own reasoning just so that a thing that does not appear to make sense, somehow make sense.
It's not neccessary.
If there is one difference between how the majority of Mid-Acts Pastor-Teachers approach these things, and a small few within Mid-Acts do here and there do, thus, their ending up left field of said majority...that...is it.
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turbosixx
New member
Now where is your DEEP Greek knowledge to support this claim? How is pasE tE ktisei Jews ONLY?
Yes it is, just like Paul practiced.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas;
There was a purpose and a need for those things back then. Look what that verse says they were for.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed
The signs were to help spread the word and to confirm it was from God.
Acts 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them. 6 The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
Now that is has been confirmed and has been completely revealed, we no longer need them.
turbosixx
New member
What Jewish program? There is only one program, Christ.
Hi and WATER BAPTISM was given to John the Baptist and he baptized all of Jerusalem and those from Judea in Matt 3:5 and it does not say they were IMMERSED !!
In 1 Cor 1:17 it says that Paul was not sent to BAPTIZE , so what does this mean ?
dan p
turbosixx
New member
Where are you getting your definitions? This is what I've found.
G907
baptizó: to dip, sink
Original Word: βαπτίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: baptizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bap-tid'-zo)
Short Definition: I dip, submerge, baptize
Definition: lit: I dip, submerge, but specifically of ceremonial dipping; I baptize.
HELPS Word-studies
907 baptízō – properly, "submerge" (Souter); hence, baptize, to immerse (literally, "dip under"). 907 (baptízō) implies submersion ("immersion"), in contrast to 472 /antéxomai ("sprinkle").
You're only thinking it isn't immerse.
Tell me what he means based on context of the PASSAGE.
Wouldn't you agree context is important?
Lk. 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Hi and the Greek BAPTIZO has many meaning and NO WHERE is it IMMERSION !!
So how was Paul BAPTIZED , and can you prove that he was IMMERSED any where in the bible ??
dan p
Your assertions are ever useless.
Because you consistently apply your sharpness at observing things absent of Old Testament information on those things.
Water baptism was an Israelite ritual under the Law for a sign of certain things.
Just as the sign gifts were.
Until you put away your error and actually study those two out in light of ALL Scripture; your posts will always meet with a duh-uh from the few who are informed on these issues in light of the WHOLE of Scripture.
Til, then, you'll continue to prove yourself no better off in your actual understanding than the likes of an Interplanner and his self-deluded unbelief in his own, endless notions.
You and yours in this same error of yours all consistently do that - endlessly comment on one thing or another absent of the whole of Scripture on it.
Try Isaiah 8:20 together with 2 Timothy 3:16-17, sometime.