12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Get saved :loser:
Or go to hell with the muslims. Because frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
ECT Was Adam a free man upon his being created by God?
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12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Get saved :loser:
Or go to hell with the muslims. Because frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Sin came into the world with Adam yet he was the third to sin in the garden. Third = first, I know.
And what passed upon all men - do you even know what you wrote?
death passed upon all men, not sin. Why did death pass to all men? Because they all have sinned, NOT: they all were all created sinful in Adam. <sigh>
Cross Reference
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Before the cross, physical death, though it separated man from God, does not imply or anywhere state that it separated him necessarily unto a place of torment, being that we know righteous man, upon his death, never went to a place of torment. Where he went was given the name, "Abraham's bosom" or "Paradise, Sheol, the abode of the [righteous] dead", Hades being being the place of torment and abode of the wicked dead. Can we find agreement on that?
ttruscott
Well-known member
The various possibilities of how sheol is divided up into lowest depths, Abraham's bosom, paradise and hades etc has not jelled into any certainty for me yet. The wicked RETURN to sheol as written Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall return to Sheol *... which implies they came from there as per Matt 13:38-39 the devil sows his own into the world.
*[ The KJV rendering return as turned into is not supported anywhere and was chosen to offset the implication of our preexistence in sheol by this verse according to their 'created on earth' bias.]
If you know a verse in which the righteous dead abide in sheol, I'd like to see it, thanks,
Peace, Ted
Cross Reference
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Believing to be a mute point, why not consider I made a mistake in the names of the departments of the abode of the righteous dead, "Abraham's Bosom", notwithstanding that Jesus referred to as it being?
Livelystone
New member
Ted,
The law of the seed that was already in effect before Adam was created lawfully demands that the seed represent the image and likeness of the fruit of the donor.
Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Adam's fruit was sinful because of his disobedience to God, and by law the seed coming from Adam had to reflect Adam's sinful nature
Thus sin was passed unto all men from Adam. The result of the sin coming from Adam unto all of mankind was the sentence of death upon all of mankind and not the other way around. If sin had not been passed unto them they would have not been condemned to die from before they were even born
We see in Paul's words below how little babies who have not yet sinned are under the condemnation of death because of sin that is a noun aka a living principality within them from their conception that came from when their fathers seed passed down from Adam fertilized the egg within their mother's womb
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come
Cross Reference
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Law of the "seed"? Seed and law, hmmm . . . . . ? There can be forgiveness without the shedding of "seed"! Yeah!!I got it!!! Jesus came to shed His sinless Seed!!! yeah, Thats gotta be it!! WOO-HOO!!
Livelystone
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The seed is the Word and God's Word is spirit........ to bad you have to be told that
Cross Reference
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The Word had a form. Adam was made in His image! I learned that from this. You can to, if you can read for understanding:
"And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Exodus 33:19-23 (KJV)
Hearmyvoice
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Ted, the verse you quoted really caught my eye (the wicked return to sheol). That requires some thinking time! :idea: Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Livelystone
New member
CR,
A spirit and soul have no face
Adam was made spirit with a soul the same as everyone today is born a spirit with a soul, and are all in the image of God.
To be both the image and likeness of God (or expressed image as said in the NT) requires the same spirit and soul as God.
Adam had this when first created perfect but only up until the time he became unclean because of sin. Jesus too had this at first, but because he never knew sin, he died innocent of any sin ever. This fact about the life and death of Jesus made His resurrection a given