ECT Two Gospels Preached During The Acts Period

[Jerry Shugart]

I believe Rom 4;16 and it has always been by FAITH...

If you believe Romans 4:16 then you should know that it has also always been by " grace" also:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

The Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith. And since "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive then we can know for a fact that the Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved APART FROM WORKS!

 

[DAN P]

If you believe Romans 4:16 then you should know that it has also always been by " grace" also:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

The Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith. And since "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive then we can know for a fact that the Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved APART FROM WORKS!

Hi Jerry and and if all Jews under the Law were saved by GRACE how was Moses saved ?? Heb 11:28 and 29 !!

It seems that MOSES was save by keep the PASSOVER !! and there is a verse , so what is it , Heb 9:15 !!

So when were the sins of Israel taken a away

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi Jerry and and if all Jews under the Law were saved by GRACE how was Moses saved ?? Heb 11:28 and 29 !!

Not all of them were saved. But the ones who were saved were saved by grace.

It seems that MOSES was save by keep the PASSOVER !! and there is a verse , so what is it , Heb 9:15 !!

Where in the Bible do we read that?

So when were the sins of Israel taken a away

We know that they were taken away before the Cross and both Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:15 shed light on your question.

 

[DAN P]

Not all of them were saved. But the ones who were saved were saved by grace.



Where in the Bible do we read that?



We know that they were taken away before the Cross and both Romans 3:25 and Hebrews 9:15 shed light on your question.

Hi and I wrote the wrong passage down and meNT hEB 11:28 AND 29 !!

So when were Israels sins forgiven and that is Heb 9:15 , what say you ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So when were Israels sins forgiven and that is Heb 9:15 , what say you ??

Why don't you tell me?

 

[Danoh]

Why don't you tell me?

Dan P is one of those FEW within MAD who is confused - who erroneously concludes the Little Flock did not receive a foretaste of their New Covenant's Promise.

You'd think Acts 1 thru 7, as decribed by Hebrews 2, does not exist in their Bibles.

This, from a guy who in the same breath asserts that a comparison of Acts 9:6 with 1 Cor. 12:3 proves Paul was saved in Acts 9:6.

Watch. He will now prove - once more - he hasn't a clue what I am talking about.

 

[Nick M]

The Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith. And since "grace" and "works" are mutually exclusive then we can know for a fact that the Jewish believers who lived under the law were saved APART FROM WORKS!

They were required to do and observe all that the pharisee commands because he sat in the seat of Moses. It was required until the end for them. Pray their flight (from tribulation) would not be on the Sabbath, or they would be breaking the second commandment.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

They were required to do and observe all that the pharisee commands because he sat in the seat of Moses. It was required until the end for them. Pray their flight (from tribulation) would not be on the Sabbath, or they would be breaking the second commandment.

It wasn't required for them to be saved. Once they believed then their righteousness no longer depended on law keeping:

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

 

[DAN P]

Dan P is one of those FEW within MAD who is confused - who erroneously concludes the Little Flock did not receive a foretaste of their New Covenant's Promise.

You'd think Acts 1 thru 7, as decribed by Hebrews 2, does not exist in their Bibles.

This, from a guy who in the same breath asserts that a comparison of Acts 9:6 with 1 Cor. 12:3 proves Paul was saved in Acts 9:6.

Watch. He will now prove - once more - he hasn't a clue what I am talking about.

Hi danof , how am I mis-understood by those who will never see how Paul was saved EVEN when given the verse that prove Paul salvation and do not have a CLUE !!

You do not understand Actgs and OBVUOIS do not understand Heb 6:4 and 5 !!

Just do not PUT words in my mouth as IT IS IUNSANTARY as I can do a better job than you !!

I see that your Acts 28er is and I have posted on that forum , also , BUT you and Jerry can not explain how Paul was SAVED and how the PATTERN of salvation works as Paul is the PATTERN in 1 Tim 1:15 and 16 , am I am right !!

YESSSSSSSS!!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Why don't you tell me?

Hi and this means you do not know , what Heb 9:15 means ??

If you say NO , then I will tell you !!

dan p

 

[Nick M]

It wasn't required for them to be saved. Once they believed then their righteousness no longer depended on law keeping:

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

You are quoting Paul after the dispensation of grace. See Acts 5 if believing that the Jesus is the Messiah will save somebody without works.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are quoting Paul after the dispensation of grace. See Acts 5 if believing that the Jesus is the Messiah will save somebody without works.

Paul's words here are in regard to "every one that believeth" and not just the ones who believed after the dispensation of grace began:

"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).​

Certainly Peter was saved before the dispensation of grace began and he reveals that his salvation was according to grace:

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).

Since "works" and "grace" are mutually exclusive (Ro.4:4; Eph.2:8-9) then we can know that "works" played no part in the salvation of Peter and the other Jewish believers who lived under the law:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

What do you think that the words "dispensation of the grace of God" signify?

Thanks!

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

Here we see a reference to two different gospels:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.1:7).​

What was preached to the Jews during the Acts period? Here is what Paul preached to them:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

The Apostle John makes it clear that those who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are "born of God":

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4,5).​

John also made it clear that those who believe this truth receive life:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

This is the gospel or "good news" of Christ which was first preached to the Jews, the gospel which saved all those who believed:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek"(Ro.1:16).​

The heart and soul of the gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period concerned the "identity" of the Lord Jesus. And while He walked the earth He said this to the Jews:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

On the other hand, the heart and soul of the gospel of the uncircumcision concerns the "purpose" of the Lord's death upon the Cross:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

Two different gospels and belief in either of them brought salvation to all who believed.

Both groups need to trust in Him for forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin." Romans 3:9 "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised by that same faith." Romans 3:30

 

[Interplanner]

Both groups need to trust in Him for forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin." Romans 3:9 "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised by that same faith." Romans 3:30

Jerry's material here is poorly done and the grammar of Gal 2 is totally wrong in how it is used. Greek tells you how to 'diagram'. The preaching was the same thing; the objects were different. So says the apostle who just pronounced anathema on other gospels (there is no higher curse).

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry's material here is poorly done and the grammar of Gal 2 is totally wrong in how it is used. Greek tells you how to 'diagram'.

Do you really think that you know more about Greek grammar than those who actually translated those verses in the Bible?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Both groups need to trust in Him for forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

"We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin." Romans 3:9 "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised by that same faith." Romans 3:30

Yes and there has only ever been the one Gospel of Christ.

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

LA

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes and there has only ever been the one Gospel of Christ.

Here we see a reference to two different gospels:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.1:7).​

What was preached to the Jews during the Acts period? Here is what Paul preached to them:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

The Apostle John makes it clear that those who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are "born of God":

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4,5).​

John also made it clear that those who believe this truth receive life:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

This is the gospel or "good news" of Christ which was first preached to the Jews, the gospel which saved all those who believed:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek"(Ro.1:16).​

The heart and soul of the gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period concerned the "identity" of the Lord Jesus. And while He walked the earth He said this to the Jews:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

On the other hand, the heart and soul of the gospel of the uncircumcision concerns the "purpose" of the Lord's death upon the Cross:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

Two different gospels and belief in either of them brought salvation to all who believed.

 

[Interplanner]

Here we see a reference to two different gospels:

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter" (Gal.1:7).​

What was preached to the Jews during the Acts period? Here is what Paul preached to them:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

The Apostle John makes it clear that those who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are "born of God":

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4,5).​

John also made it clear that those who believe this truth receive life:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

This is the gospel or "good news" of Christ which was first preached to the Jews, the gospel which saved all those who believed:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek"(Ro.1:16).​

The heart and soul of the gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period concerned the "identity" of the Lord Jesus. And while He walked the earth He said this to the Jews:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

On the other hand, the heart and soul of the gospel of the uncircumcision concerns the "purpose" of the Lord's death upon the Cross:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

Two different gospels and belief in either of them brought salvation to all who believed.

No, there is no other meaning to the Messiah than Is 53 and Dan 9's 6 accomplishments reveal. This is totally bizarre Jerry to take this view. The friction point between the church and Judaism was the declaration that Jesus of Nazareth was that Messiah of Is 53 and Dan 9 and Ps 22-24, besides 2, 16 and 110. Then, of course, his kingdom was to be proclaimed as existing now, above the earth's kinds and lords.

It is also grammatical poppycock to use Gal 2 in support of 2 gospels.

 

[Right Divider]

It is also grammatical poppycock to use Gal 2 in support of 2 gospels.

:french:
Oh the irony of the King of Poppycock telling us what is poppycock.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is also grammatical poppycock to use Gal 2 in support of 2 gospels.

I do not even need to use that verse.

What was preached to the Jews during the Acts period? Here is what Paul preached to them:

"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).​

The Apostle John makes it clear that those who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are "born of God":

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him...For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4,5).​

John also made it clear that those who believe this truth receive life:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

This is the gospel or "good news" of Christ which was first preached to the Jews, the gospel which saved all those who believed:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek"(Ro.1:16).​

The heart and soul of the gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period concerned the "identity" of the Lord Jesus. And while He walked the earth He said this to the Jews:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

On the other hand, the heart and soul of the gospel which was preached to the Gentiles concerns the "purpose" of the Lord's death upon the Cross:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).​

Two different gospels and belief in either of them brought salvation to all who believed.