Trumpcare will throw people off healthcare?

exminister

Well-known member
Since this new plan is not a repeal of Obamacare, Republicans should just scrap it and stick with Obamacare until the bitter end. Let tens of millions Americans suffer with it or go without coverage, paying a tax instead. The problem in the last 50 years is that demonrats have been inching closer to universal government healthcare by expanding entitlements. The old, the young, the poor, the unemployed etc., always expanding eligibility for free coverage. Medicaid was originally for pregnant women and the disabled. The new plan gives control back to the states where it belongs. Covfefe

Well, you might be right. But after 7 years they are about to explode. They must pass this Better Care act or they will look ineffectual. Then it become Trumpcare and they will have to deal with that fallout. It is a hot potato and no one is trying to really make it the best healthcare for Americans.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
I was reading that and looking elsewhere. Rand equates helping those in need unwillingly as forced conscription. I simply wanted to know what his plan was and now I see it has to be if you don't have insurance or ability to pay at the emergency room you are sent packing. So I see that as heartless. It is consistent with his overall plan that paying for someone else unwillingly is "taking away their liberty" even if it for the public good. I not saying it's a right or not. I am just seeing it is without compassion.

I cannot see supporting such a plan.

It's not "compassion" to take from one and give it to another....

You make it sound like we are without compassion.....

the government has to do it for us.....not compassion.
 

WizardofOz

New member
I was reading that and looking elsewhere. Rand equates helping those in need unwillingly as forced conscription. I simply wanted to know what his plan was and now I see it has to be if you don't have insurance or ability to pay at the emergency room you are sent packing.

I am not saying that you're wrong but I'd like to take a look at your source on this...:e4e:
 

exminister

Well-known member
It's not "compassion" to take from one and give it to another....

You make it sound like we are without compassion.....

the government has to do it for us.....not compassion.

Paul Rand's plan of rejecting an ill person at the emergency room because he has no money or insurance is nothing other than heartless and without compassion. You might have compassion but it certain is not coming across at all. There are 330 million people in the United States. Medical attention is performed by a specialized subset of trained personnel. If they come to my house I cannot help them medically. But I would certain be willing to drive them to the hospital if I know they will be cared for.

If an ill person comes to your house asking for help, will you send them away?
 

exminister

Well-known member
And we can't make it the best healthcare if we keep insisting the government will solve it.

The government is us. Somethings are bigger than what individuals can do. If we get money out of politics and lobbyist and vote in those who really want to work for the American people it can be the best healthcare system. Corporations are not about us but about profits, so they are not motivated in the same way.
 

exminister

Well-known member
I am not saying that you're wrong but I'd like to take a look at your source on this...:e4e:


At the end Rand Paul talks about providing free access for those in need, but that was my point earlier with DB. If you don't reject the uninsured or poor sick people then you will ultimately pass on the cost to the taxpayer. It would seem very reasonable and compassionate to look at that and determine a cost/benefit analysis. Maybe it would be cheaper to provide preventative health care instead of handling people in crisis at the emergency room which is the most expensive way to handle medical conditions and may crowd it.

But when I look at his plan I am not seeing any mention of how to handle such a condition. And if he thinks doctors are "in slavery" taking on the sick it is easy to conclude he would rather reject them or get rid of them the fastest and cheapest way he could.

His bullet point plan is here.
https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

No mention of emergency room care, but there is this limitation for doctors.

Charity Care and Bad Debt Deduction for Physicians
Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt. This deduction is limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.
 

WizardofOz

New member
Charity Care and Bad Debt Deduction for Physicians
Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt. This deduction is limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...f-healthcare&p=5051311&viewfull=1#post5051311

Maybe you missed it ^

I'll watch the video when I get home. Thank you for posting it.
 

exminister

Well-known member
Ah, if only that were true...



I apologize for my cynicism but FTFY ;)

330 million people condensed down to a federal 600 people is going to have its limitations. But if we vote bad people in and KEEP voting them in we get garbage. Lethargy and sitting at home each primary and election day gives us garbage as well. The government is us. I didn't say I like it. :cheers:
 

drbrumley

Well-known member

At the end Rand Paul talks about providing free access for those in need, but that was my point earlier with DB. If you don't reject the uninsured or poor sick people then you will ultimately pass on the cost to the taxpayer. It would seem very reasonable and compassionate to look at that and determine a cost/benefit analysis. Maybe it would be cheaper to provide preventative health care instead of handling people in crisis at the emergency room which is the most expensive way to handle medical conditions and may crowd it.

But when I look at his plan I am not seeing any mention of how to handle such a condition. And if he thinks doctors are "in slavery" taking on the sick it is easy to conclude he would rather reject them or get rid of them the fastest and cheapest way he could.

His bullet point plan is here.
https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

No mention of emergency room care, but there is this limitation for doctors.

Charity Care and Bad Debt Deduction for Physicians
Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt. This deduction is limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.

Did he say something wrong.....

Why No, No he didn't...
 

exminister

Well-known member
Did he say something wrong.....

Why No, No he didn't...

Never said he did. I just wanted clarity. I see he has no problem with an emergency room or doctor who doesn't want to help a sick person because they cannot pay. No compassion is fine for the reason of greed.

He does whine though. No one would beat down his door and have the police remove him.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Never said he did. I just wanted clarity. I see he has no problem with an emergency room or doctor who doesn't want to help a sick person because they cannot pay. No compassion is fine for the reason of greed.

He does whine though. No one would beat down his door and have the police remove him.

Hmmmm, like the baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for two homosexuals. No one thought he would be sued under penalty of law either.
 

exminister

Well-known member
Hmmmm, like the baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for two homosexuals. No one thought he would be sued under penalty of law either.

Paul is talking about something that could happen today - malpractice.
But if healthcare was set up right the doctor would be covered for taking severely sick patients who cannot afford the cost or coverage so no police would be called. Instead Paul's plan allows for right of refusal and if the patient dies because of the greed of the doctor he will be sued at least civilly or criminally. So it is not making sense. A doctor should be able to bill the government if he takes such a patient so he doesn't have to worry about such things and keeps his Hippocratic oath. That at least shows some compassion and keeps the doctor focused on his job instead of worrying about the arbitrary 10% cutoff of Paul's plan.
 

ClimateSanity

New member
If you intended this for me I need it restated. healthcare is to cigarettes ... ?
There is a vast amount of possible healthcare. Many conditions are the result of poor choices over a lifetime. Some people do nothing about their health until it's too late. The quality of care is highly variable too.

Are all health care options a right no matter the expense? Are gender change operations a right? Are abortions a right? Are condoms a right? Is breast augmentation a right? Is the newest $5000 medicine a right even when a $30 generic is available? Are new liver transplants a right for people who refuse to stop drinking?

Who gets to decide what our rights are?
 
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