OK. I can take correction. Your father the Devil.
Trinity Evidence False
- Thread starter Squeaky
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OK. I can take correction. Your father the Devil.
The Nicene Creed spake thus:
Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·
φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
(and I believe in) Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light from light, true God from True God, begotten not made [i.e. 'created', one in being with the Father, through him all things came into being ...
Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·
φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
(and I believe in) Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light from light, true God from True God, begotten not made [i.e. 'created', one in being with the Father, through him all things came into being ...
I thought the following might help, a reply I originally posted, incorrectly, to Squeaky,and missing the closing square bracket. The Nicene Creed spake thus:
Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·
φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
(and I believe in) Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light from light, true God from True God, begotten not made [i.e. not 'created'], one in being with the Father, through him all things came into being ...
Admittedly this is a strangely anthropomorphic way of stating the relationship - but as far as I know no one has come with an improvement. The act of begetting is surely metaphorical isn't it, since there is no mention of a divine consort?
Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων·
φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
(and I believe in) Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light from light, true God from True God, begotten not made [i.e. not 'created'], one in being with the Father, through him all things came into being ...
Admittedly this is a strangely anthropomorphic way of stating the relationship - but as far as I know no one has come with an improvement. The act of begetting is surely metaphorical isn't it, since there is no mention of a divine consort?
I said
The nicene creed is old testament.
lolol Jesus was bringing a whole new covenant=testament. Based on new laws new commandments, new covenant. He has already annulled the old testament.
John 10:8
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
(NKJ)
Jesus had already said that nothing before Him was important, so now lets start out new with a new testament, new covenant, new law, new commandments.
Heb 10:9-10
9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(NKJ)
John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)
Heb 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
(NKJ)
Heb 7:18
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
(NKJ)
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
(NKJ)
Heb 9:16-18
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.
(NKJ)
This is Old Testament?
(and I believe in) Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds. Light from light, true God from True God, begotten not made [i.e. not 'created'], one in being with the Father, through him all things came into being ...
I said
Look again that is all new testament. And you cant show me anywhere in the bible where it says "true God from True God. That is a gross exaggeration. What the bible does say is the Father is the only true God.
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
Jesus also said that we have the very same God that He does. And that we have the very same Father that He does.
John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)
And Paul even said we only have one God the Father.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
Only people that think outside the word of God thinks that Jesus is God. But if you would follow the rules of believing you cant think that Jesus is God.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
for some reason Trinitarians cant believe the bible in the way it is written.
John 7:38
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
(NKJ)
I do believe that the early church Fathers know a a little more on the subject than you do.
O.K. Squeaky,
Consider the opening of the gospel of John, this clearly states the case for the divinity/deity of the second person of the unity:
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος,
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν,
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.
2 οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν.
3 πάντα δῖ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο,
καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἑν.
ὃ γέγονεν 4 ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν,
καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀνθρώπων·
5 καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει,
καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν.
I have tried to highlight: "and the word was God"
John is talking about the word made flesh. Isn't that sufficient? What more do you want?
Consider the opening of the gospel of John, this clearly states the case for the divinity/deity of the second person of the unity:
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος,
καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν,
καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.
2 οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν.
3 πάντα δῖ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο,
καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἑν.
ὃ γέγονεν 4 ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν,
καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀνθρώπων·
5 καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει,
καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν.
I have tried to highlight: "and the word was God"
John is talking about the word made flesh. Isn't that sufficient? What more do you want?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
satan is squeaky's diety
I said
I'm sure of that. I think that is why they gave us the apostles creed.
Apostles Creed
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth;
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
THE APOSTLES CREED
I believe in God the Father Almighty. And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary; crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried; the third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father, from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Spirit; the holy Church; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the flesh.
I BELIEVE IN ONE GOD,
Creator of Heaven and earth,
And of all things visible and invisible.
And in his Spiritual Son, Jesus Christ,
Whom was born of Mary and Joseph,
Was not consubstantial nor co-eternal with God the Father almighty,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died, and was buried.
On the third day His Spirit was resurrected.
He ascended into Heaven,
And sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty.
Whence he shall come again to judge the living and the dead,
Of whose Kingdom there shall be no end.
And I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church,
The communion of saints,
The forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the Spirit,
And life everlasting.
Amen.
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I said
lol Well I just don't have any reason to. If its not in the new testament, I'm not really interested.
Squeaky, you need to come under submission of the whole counsel of God.
I said
I think that has been your problem all along. I already have the only guarantee of salvation. And you don't. The Holy Spirit.
2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)
Squeaky, who are you to say whether the Spirit of God resides in me or not. This is what He has done for me.
Colossians 1:26-28 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
26 even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
I said
I didn't say you didn't have the Holy Spirit, your just not willing to learn from Him. If you were you couldn't believe in the trinity doctrine. What I said was you don't have the guarantee. That only comes from totally submitting to the Holy Spirit and purging your mind of carnality.
I think the same about you Squeaky. How can you say that you have the Holy Spirit who was sent by God the Son when you don't even know the Son. The Gospel and Trinity are so simple and easily seen through John 1:1, 14, 3:16 and 1 John 1:1-2.
I said
The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,
Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.
So you are saying the It became flesh and dwelt among us? Man cannot be an it. It is an inanimate object. Does that make sense to you?
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