toldailytopic: Uprising in Egypt, what are your thoughts?

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Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for January 31st, 2011 10:49 AM


toldailytopic: Uprising in Egypt, what are your thoughts?






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Nydhogg

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some other dude said:
I think this is going to drive oil up over $150/bbl if they don't clamp down hard on it, fast.
Click to expand...

Let's support horrible dictatorships for the sake of having cheap oil! Did you think this through?
I don't know who's rising, but I guess it ain't only the fundies anymore.

Mubarak managed to piss off everybody. I wouldn't like Egypt falling to the theocracy crowd, but supporting pathetic tyrants like Mubarak is asinine.
 
Dena

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My hope is that this will be an opportunity to get in some decent leadership, not an opportunity for more tyrants to sneak in during uncertainty.
 
Town Heretic

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Imagine...supporting the growth of democratic ideas and a people who are actually asking us to :help: and without spending billions and billions...sounds like a win/win.
 
some other dude

some other dude

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Carter thought the same thing back in 1978 with Iran.

"Oh goody! Overthrown dictator and democratic movement!"



We're still dealing with that mess.


Better the devil you know.
 
Nydhogg

Nydhogg

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So much for the land of the free!

Freedom doesn't matter. Other people's freedom, that is.
Supporting brutal tyrants it's OK as long as it helps US interests.

As long as they're not Americans, who cares if the guy we support oppresses them?

:vomit:


Tyranny is never OK. Supporting tyranny is repulsive.




Whoever grabs power in Egypt, I hope it's not the fundies. But supporting a tyrant shouldn't even be an option.
 
some other dude

some other dude

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A worthy ambition, but fruitless in the face of reality. Unless you and me and those in western Europe and northern America don't want to heat your homes this winter.
 
WizardofOz

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some other dude said:
I think this is going to drive oil up over $150/bbl if they don't clamp down hard on it, fast.
Knight said:
And just exactly who, should clamp down on what?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

x2....what? :liberals:

Anyway, I think this posts summed certain aspects of the uprising quite well.....
champdefrene said:
Oh no, someone says 'God is Great' in their native language! They're a terrorist!

The protests in Egypt have been secular, with both Christians and Muslims taking part. I was at the Egyptian Embassy in London yestarday and spoke to protesters there. Many of them were saying they were concerned that some Islamic radicals might join and ruin the protest. The symbol for the protest I most commonly saw as a crescent with the base bisected by a cross.

Surprisingly, the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been hitherto relatively influential in Egypt, have more or less disappeared in this protest. ElBaradei seems to be the main figurehead for the protest movement.

Why would the protests simply be anti-American given that Egypt has been an American ally since 1972, and there have been few protests since then? Why now? Aren't the facts that Mubarak and his son are deeply unpopular repressive tyrants, that Egypt is facing economic stagnation with high unemployment and poverty rates, and that the revolution in Tunisia was such a resounding surprise and success enough of an explanation for the current uprising?
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:first:

Personally, I think that a poor economic climate is easier to blame on leaders who have had a stranglehold on a country for far too long.
 
A

agnostic_gnostic

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"Carter thought the same thing back in 1978 with Iran."
some other dude
Actually, the hostage crisis was created when Carter continued his support for the Shah by letting him into the country for medical reasons. Carter even tried a military intervention to rescue the hostages. The crisis ended when Reagan gave the terrorists arms for hostages.
Many people think that doing the right thing is stupid.( Is that a Christian idea?) However, look where cynical manipulation has gotten us. Saddam was our pal. We aided the Taliban.......The list goes on and on.
We even supported the Khmer Rouge!!!
PS: Actually it wasn't "we" it was the cynical elite that have dominated us for decades. Doing the moral thing isn't stupid. It ( in the long term) is in one's best interest. If we do not support those in Egypt protesting for freedom the world will have their opinion of us reinforced. That we are not pro-freedom but the enemy of freedom. That reputation is not good for our influence in the region and in the world.
 
some other dude

some other dude

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agnostic_gnostic said:
"Carter thought the same thing back in 1978 with Iran."
some other dude
Actually, the hostage crisis was created when Carter continued his support for the Shah by letting him into the country for medical reasons. Carter even tried a military intervention to rescue the hostages. The crisis ended when Reagan gave the terrorists arms for hostages.
Many people think that doing the right thing is stupid.( Is that a Christian idea?) However, look where cynical manipulation has gotten us. Saddam was our pal. We aided the Taliban.......The list goes on and on.
We even supported the Khmer Rouge!!!
PS: Actually it wasn't "we" it was the cynical elite that have dominated us for decades. Doing the moral thing isn't stupid. It ( in the long term) is in one's best interest. If we do not support those in Egypt protesting for freedom the world will have their opinion of us reinforced. That we are not pro-freedom but the enemy of freedom. That reputation is not good for our influence in the region and in the world.
Click to expand...



Wiki Realpolitik
 
A

agnostic_gnostic

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It ( Realpolitik) may have worked in the past ( and that is debatable) but in today's world ( that is interconnected, internet, economics etc) it fails miserably. Just look at how Tunisia spilled over into Egypt.
Would you say that Iraq ( http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/page3/ ) Afghanistan and Vietnam were success stories? Remember that Kissinger ( the high priest of Realpolitik) was majorly influential in Vietnam policy. McNamara was also a practitioner of realpolitik and then late in life recognized the error of his ways.
Realpolitik is in the dust bin of history and only used by those trapped by archaic ideas and their own closed minds. Its like using medieval military strategy in a modern war.
 
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