toldailytopic: For those unsaved. If it turns out you were wrong and you face God in

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 1st, 2011 08:34 AM

toldailytopic: For those unsaved. If it turns out you were wrong and you face God in judgment what will be your defense?

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[Granite]

What God are we talking about? I mean, some are more understanding or lenient than others.

Assuming it's the God believed in by evangelical Christians, there's simply no defense you can bother with and it'd be pointless to even try.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

What God are we talking about? I mean, some are more understanding or lenient than others.

Assuming it's the God believed in by evangelical Christians, there's simply no defense you can bother with and it'd be pointless to even try.

If you are being judged it only follows that you will be able to give your defense (regardless of what god we happen to be talking about). Therefore, if you would like to view the god you face as more lenient than the Christian God that's fine (for sake of this discussion that is).

So when God asks... you lived your life wanting to be apart from me.... why?

How will you answer?

 

[ragTagblues]

Simply that I tried my best to lead a good life and not cause any harm . . . .

Which is something some believers in God can't say!

 

[Granite]

If you are being judged it only follows that you will be able to give your defense (regardless of what god we happen to be talking about). Therefore, if you would like to view the god you face as more lenient than the Christian God that's fine (for sake of this discussion that is).

So when God asks... you lived your life wanting to be apart from me.... why?

How will you answer?

The question's really used by believers of all kinds to gauge the "real" or "deepest" reasons a non-believer remains outside the fold. There's any number of different answers, each that could theoretically be used depending on the deity in question. As a thought experiment related to the God TOL is most acquainted with, there's simply no defense possible, or of any use. Which is why I wouldn't offer one.

Now, should the God of the Mormons ask me the same thing, I'd explain that it appeared he was the imagined deity of some New York state frauds and hicks, and that the deity had crafted a ridiculous and puerile back story; no big shakes, since I'd wind up in a terrestrial heaven that'd be quite pleasant.

Should the God of the Jews ask me this question I'd simply shrug and explain that as One of the Chosen I deserve a mulligan.

Should Allah ask me, I'd hold my tongue just as I would with the God of the Christians.

If Allah asks you the same question, what would you tell him?

 

[Squishes]

Not enough evidence, God, not enough evidence.

--Bertrand Russell

 

[chrysostom]

I believed the part in the bible where Jesus said He would build His Church on a rock
and
I thought that rock was Peter
since
Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter, which means rock

it was a honest mistake

 

[Silent Hunter]

Dude . . . you set the criteria at "believe you exist" . . . not "know you exist" . . . what did you expect?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The question's really used by believers of all kinds to gauge the "real" or "deepest" reasons a non-believer remains outside the fold. There's any number of different answers, each that could theoretically be used depending on the deity in question. As a thought experiment related to the God TOL is most acquainted with, there's simply no defense possible, or of any use. Which is why I wouldn't offer one.

Not enough evidence, God, not enough evidence.

--Bertrand Russell

Dude . . . you set the criteria at "believe you exist" . . . not "know you exist" . . . what did you expect?

All three of you have the wrong idea as to what God is looking for. It's no wonder that you are confused and have a ill impression of God.

God merely wants you.... to want to BE with Him. He wants to fellowship with you, He wants you to choose Him over the alternative.

Your belief in Him, His death on the cross, and His paying the penalty for your sins is done on faith. You may have very little belief in the actual events or the exact manner in which it all occurred. Yet if you put your faith in Him in that you truly desire to be with Him as opposed to the alternative then God will handle the rest.

One might say... God I'm really struggling to believe what is written in your word but I want to put my faith in you because that's where I want to spend eternity, with You! In other words.... nobody can force themselves to believe something they don't believe. But we can choose to pick a side and have faith that we are making the right choice because deep down inside it's what we really and truly want. The thing is, none of you want to be with God regardless if He exists or not. You are making the conscious effort to reject Him and then writing off that choice as mandatory because you don't believe the details of the story. God is a gentlemen, He isn't going to kidnap you and take you someplace where you don't want to be. He grants everyone their own choice and holds them responsible for that choice.

The bottom line is... one might only have the belief of a mustard seed but if they place their faith in Him because they would rather be with Him eternally than choose the alternative, God will welcome you into His kingdom with open arms.

 

[Sherman]

It only takes just a small start for faith to be born- a very tiny seed that can eventually grow to be a redwood. Each person, Atheists included, have a void in their lives that God can only fill. The answers really are not to be found in debates and quibbling, but in a simple faith in what Jesus did for us at Calvary.

Steps to faith:

1. Admit you have sinned and need God. Some say "I was born this way". In a sense they are correct. We all go the wrong way without God. The first step in the birth of faith is admitting we have done wrong.

2. Recognize that Jesus, God's Son died on the cross and shed His blood as a substitute sacrifice to take away your sins. He is the only person in history that never sinned, making Him the perfect offering.

3. Invite Jesus to be the Lord of your life. Your sins will be forgotten. If you commit new ones, they too get washed away. If you have a particular sin that you struggle with, God will help you deal with it. Remember, no human being will be perfect until this life is over. At this point, 'Salvation' is complete and faith has been born. One could say the seedling has sprouted.

Growth phase:

As we live through life, our faith grows stronger and we increase in knowledge. We begin to understand the puzzles that stumped us or seemed stupid when we were nonbelievers.

Maturity--When the earthly life is over and when stand before God. We won't be asking Him desperate sorts of questions. I will probably be asking Him the kind of questions that peak my curiosity--such how did He hang all those stars.

 

[Skavau]

So when God asks... you lived your life wanting to be apart from me.... why?

God would be asking a loaded question. No-one asides the most strident anti-theists literally want to live their life apart from God. Atheists simply don't believe in the existence of God and see no reason to pretend that they do. Adherents of other religions would respond that they actually did want to be with God and simply imagined God differently.

 

[Squishes]

All three of you have the wrong idea as to what God is looking for. It's no wonder that you are confused and have a ill impression of God.

I may be confused, but I think your answer misses my point. For example:

God merely wants you.... to want to BE with Him. He wants to fellowship with you, He wants you to choose Him over the alternative.

Ok, but how can I want to be with someone I have no reason to believe in? I agree that the Bible might say that God wants me to put my trust in Him, but why should I care what the Bible says? It is highly unlikely that if there is a God, He peeked his head into the world a few thousand years ago and then disappeared but still requires us to believe He exists.

Your belief in Him, His death on the cross, and His paying the penalty for your sins is done on faith. You may have very little belief in the actual events or the exact manner in which it all occurred. Yet if you put your faith in Him in that you truly desire to be with Him as opposed to the alternative then God will handle the rest.

I agree that if I just force myself to believe (if one can even do that) that God exists I might start to believe the rest of the doctrines. But what you think is a perfectly plausible way to come to religious belief I just see people talking themselves into something that they otherwise wouldn't believe. Why don't you try to just force yourself to believe in the standard theory of evolution? I bet all your misgivings would disappear.

One might say... God I'm really struggling to believe what is written in your word but I want to put my faith in you because that's where I want to spend eternity, with You! In other words.... nobody can force themselves to believe something they don't believe. But we can choose to pick a side and have faith that we are making the right choice because deep down inside it's what we really and truly want.

While I like the idea of not dying, I actually don't think that I enjoy the idea of living with God for all of eternity. I think if there is a God, He is ambivalent to most evil that happens on the earth when it would be quite easy to end it, so I don't think the idea of heaven and fellowship with God is very appealing.

The thing is, none of you want to be with God regardless if He exists or not. You are making the conscious effort to reject Him and then writing off that choice as mandatory because you don't believe the details of the story. God is a gentlemen, He isn't going to kidnap you and take you someplace where you don't want to be. He grants everyone their own choice and holds them responsible for that choice.

That's fair. I hold God responsible for inaction for all the preventable evils that go on, if He exists.

The bottom line is... one might only have the belief of a mustard seed but if they place their faith in Him because they would rather be with Him eternally than choose the alternative, God will welcome you into His kingdom with open arms.

Which is why the standard story of salvation is immoral. It is an ability to believe in an absence of reason that determines one's eternal fate, not one's moral character.

 

[Lave]

I was a good person and did my best to make the world a better place. I think that should be what matters in judging someone, not whether or not they believed a particular religion. If God really wants to send me to eternal hellfire for holding a different belief about what happens after death -- something none of us know -- then I'd rather go to hell anyway than worship someone like Him.

 

[Skavau]

God merely wants you.... to want to BE with Him. He wants to fellowship with you, He wants you to choose Him over the alternative.

I don't think you understand just how much like white noise that sounds to a non-believer. What is "God"? What alternative are you referring to? Why should I accept this specific definition and concept of "God"? Why should I endorse this specific doctrine behind said "God"? Why even worship and have fellowship with this God?

Why would it be such a crime to live a life of ignorance or apathy of and towards God?

Your belief in Him, His death on the cross, and His paying the penalty for your sins is done on faith.

But I consider 'faith' to be a pseudo-virtue. That is to say that willfully suspending disbelief in concepts on the basis of desiring them to be true is unproductive, anti-intellectual and leads you open to all manner of swindlers and con artists. Far better to live a life of skepticism and intellectual integrity be it correct or otherwise.

You may have very little belief in the actual events or the exact manner in which it all occurred. Yet if you put your faith in Him in that you truly desire to be with Him as opposed to the alternative then God will handle the rest.

But that would be false. Even if it was true that I wanted a God to be true - it would be intellectually dishonest of me to pretend my skepticism did not exist.

One might say... God I'm really struggling to believe what is written in your word but I want to put my faith in you because that's where I want to spend eternity, with You! In other words.... nobody can force themselves to believe something they don't believe. But we can choose to pick a side and have faith that we are making the right choice because deep down inside it's what we really and truly want. The thing is, none of you want to be with God regardless if He exists or not. You are making the conscious effort to reject Him and then writing off that choice as mandatory because you don't believe the details of the story. God is a gentlemen, He isn't going to kidnap you and take you someplace where you don't want to be. He grants everyone their own choice and holds them responsible for that choice.

Of course, given that you know none of us but how we are on here this is nothing but guess-work. Muslims have directly said the exact same stuff to me. You almost substitute 'God' with 'Allah' here and you would have a cut and paste copy from what I have been told by Muslims.

I would also add directly that it is a false claim to assert that atheists and non-believers want to be in hell. Not desiring God is not and cannot be construed remotely as the same as desiring eternal torture. If God exists and has declared that rejection of him constitutes eternal torture then that is simply his own conclusion he has imposed. It is simply not true.

 

[Granite]

God would be asking a loaded question. No-one asides the most strident anti-theists literally want to live their life apart from God. Atheists simply don't believe in the existence of God and see no reason to pretend that they do. Adherents of other religions would respond that they actually did want to be with God and simply imagined God differently.

The question (which I've heard many times before) is a stab at psychoanalysis. The objections a non-believer raises are intended to shed light on their own personal and most intense reasons for disbelief.

You make an outstanding point about believers from other walks.

 

[Nick M]

So when God asks... you lived your life wanting to be apart from me.... why?

How will you answer?

He is best off telling the truth. This should be the only thing he says.

Like Thomas, I didn't believe you. I am sorry.

 

[Silent Hunter]

All three of you have the wrong idea as to what God is looking for. It's no wonder that you are confused and have a ill impression of God.

God merely wants you.... to want to BE with Him. He wants to fellowship with you, He wants you to choose Him over the alternative.

Your belief in Him, His death on the cross, and His paying the penalty for your sins is done on faith. You may have very little belief in the actual events or the exact manner in which it all occurred. Yet if you put your faith in Him in that you truly desire to be with Him as opposed to the alternative then God will handle the rest.

One might say... God I'm really struggling to believe what is written in your word but I want to put my faith in you because that's where I want to spend eternity, with You! In other words.... nobody can force themselves to believe something they don't believe. But we can choose to pick a side and have faith that we are making the right choice because deep down inside it's what we really and truly want. The thing is, none of you want to be with God regardless if He exists or not. You are making the conscious effort to reject Him and then writing off that choice as mandatory because you don't believe the details of the story. God is a gentlemen, He isn't going to kidnap you and take you someplace where you don't want to be. He grants everyone their own choice and holds them responsible for that choice.

The bottom line is... one might only have the belief of a mustard seed but if they place their faith in Him because they would rather be with Him eternally than choose the alternative, God will welcome you into His kingdom with open arms.

Then all those verses concerning the importance of belief . . . nay . . . demanding belief . . . are . . . ah . . . meaningless . . . check . . . .

. . . for instance . . . Unless You Believe and Bible Verses on Belief.

 

[Quasar1011]

Simply that I tried my best to lead a good life and not cause any harm . . . .

Which is something some believers in God can't say!

That's for sure.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

"Believing in God" doesn't really get you anywhere.

 

[chrysostom]

what if you are not saved?

 

[Nick M]

I believed the part in the bible where Jesus said He would build His Church on a rock
and
I thought that rock was Peter
since
Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter, which means rock

it was a honest mistake

And you were told his church was put away, so then what is your excuse?