toldailytopic: Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 3rd, 2011 10:42 AM

toldailytopic: Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?

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[nicholsmom]

No. I think that we ought to distinguish Christians by way of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Ps82]

My thinking is like this:

First, it is God who calls and saves. It is God who reveals the truth of his identity to people... as was said after this fashion: "Seek ME and you shall find ME."

I don't think that I should condemn misled people for not knowing the truth, because I do not know when God will choose to reveal himself unto them.

BUT, I do think that I have a right and an obligation to reveal what I believe to be absolute truth of Christ's divinity to people who seem to be seeking.

People, who say that he is their savior ... but that he is not divine ... can be saved ... if they repent after God has finally chosen to enlighten their knowledge. The timing for God choosing to do this for an individual is not for me to know. So until then I speak what I know.

Yes, Muslims, and other variations of belief in Jesus, who finally make Jesus their divine LORD can ultimately be saved - by God choice.

 

[zippy2006]

No. I think that we ought to distinguish Christians by way of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

:thumb: I agree. At least that way we can have Christians and Christians* :noid: The word is losing its meaning to an extent that is somewhat frustrating. :idunno:

 

[Nang]

Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?

Absolutely, not. :down:

Nang

 

[kmoney]

I believe so. I'm sure that's not a shock though. :chuckle:


:noid:

 

[Only1God]

No. I think that we ought to distinguish Christians by way of the Nicene Creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The Nicene creed defines the church now the way the Scribes and Pharisees defined it in Jesus' time. Good luck with that What was it Jesus called them? Vipers and Whitewashed tombs?

As for me and my house, we allow the Bible to define Christianity, not any post biblical creed, especially when it has the influence of a pagan emperor, Constantine.

 

[some other dude]

The Nicene creed defines the church now the way the Scribes and Pharisees defined it in Jesus' time. Good luck with that What was it Jesus called them? Vipers and Whitewashed tombs?

As for me and my house, we allow the Bible (after we massage it, manipulate it, chop out parts we don't like and redefine words to suit our purposes)to define Christianity, not any post biblical creed, especially when it has the influence of a pagan emperor, Constantine.

You forgot this part.

 

[some other dude]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 3rd, 2011 10:42 AM

toldailytopic: Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?

No, of course not.

If they do not know Christ, they are following Satan.

 

[Lighthouse]

No.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

I dunno. I fell under the sway of some anti-trinitarian teachings in my late twenties, but God still heard my prayers (and ultimately revealed the truth). I have a hard time understanding that myself.

 

[chrysostom]

excuse me but the real question should be
can you reject the Trinity and still be saved?
since you can be a Christian by anyone's definition and still not be saved
if you don't believe Jesus is God
how can he suffer and die for your sins?
and
if you don't accept that
how can you be saved?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No, they cannot be a Christian and deny the divinity of Christ. They can call themselves "Christians" all they want, but the non-divine object of their faith is but an idol.

Christ's divine nature means His sacrificial offering possesses an eternal quality. In the heavenly tabernacle, our Lord continually presents His one completed sacrifice in continuing intercession for His people, wherein He saves them to the utmost.

No one who willingly denies the divinity of our Lord deserves to call themselves "Christian". Moreover, in my opinion, believing saints dishonor and deny our Lord Jesus Christ when we explicitly/implicitly permit this abominable behavior.

AMR

 

[Only1God]

excuse me but the real question should be
can you reject the Trinity and still be saved?
since you can be a Christian by anyone's definition and still not be saved
if you don't believe Jesus is God
how can he suffer and die for your sins?
and
if you don't accept that
how can you be saved?

First of all, you are Catholic, correct? And as such you are a member of the only church that has any credibility in asserting the trinity as truth. I still believe you're incorrect, but at least your view of the trinity and atonement are consistent with your church's initial premise that the Pope is the spiritual descendant of Peter who they believed could add or change doctrine and stood as the first Pope, so to speak.
So in the minds of the Catholic church, they are not violating Scripture by inventing new doctrine. And there are Catholic scholars who make no bones about the reality that the ancient Catholic church adopted this belief as it was declared right by their Pope. They concede it was not stated in Scripture specifically. And they are right.
I have to laugh at protestants, many who don't even consider Catholics Christians, all of whom reject the Pope's authority to change or add to doctrine, still declare doctrines clearly attributable to various Pope's as "gospel." LOL. And the trinity is just one such doctrine. It's really quite amusing But ignorance is bliss, I guess.
Anyway, though I respectfully disagree with you on the trinity, I do respect the consistency of Catholic doctrine.
So I have a question for you, regarding the sacrifice of Jesus, where in the Bible does it say that it had to be God that died for our sins in order to free us from death? The people of God longed for the Messiah for eons prior to his coming. Where does it describe their awaited Messiah as God Himself? And if God, how did that fix things? How did God dying on the cross affect our salvation? I hope you know what you believe these things and are willing to explain this to me and any others who might be reading who have the same question. Some of them might be members of trinitarian, even the Catholic church and honestly wonder about this. Thank you.

 

[Son of Jack]

No...they haven't understood what the NT writers were talking about when they called Jesus Lord.

 

[steko]

I dunno. I fell under the sway of some anti-trinitarian teachings in my late twenties, but God still heard my prayers (and ultimately revealed the truth). I have a hard time understanding that myself.

I agree. I came to Jesus beginning with a private(just me and Him) agnostic prayer, "Jesus, if you're real, if you're there, if you have the authority that you claim you have in the Bible, then please help me." Up until that time, I considered Jesus to be an ordinary man like myself who had attained to a supreme state of higher consciousness. This was a humbling of myself towards Him, based on what true Christians had told me, yet at that time I did not understand from them that He was the infinite Creator GOD, come in the flesh. My wife did not know what I had done, but in a day or so, she asked me to read ICo 1-2.

1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

These and the related verses caused me to consider that my pantheistic worldview might be upsidedown. That Sunday I was motivated to go to a local church, where a guest missionary preacher exegeted ICo 1-2. Jesus had my attention. I received Him as my Lord and Savior and His peace flooded my being.

As I studied the scriptures over time, it suddenly dawned on me that Jesus is GOD in the flesh. I believe that if one has an open mind and humble spirit, then the Holy Spirit will lead one to that conclusion.
The conclusion that Jesus is Deity will lead to a full trinitarian understanding. I don't believe that one must have that understanding to be saved, however if one desires to be consistent with the scriptures and grow in the knowledge of the mystery of GOD, then he will arrive at that conclusion.
From GOD walking and talking with Adam in the garden, the Angel of YHVH appearing and speaking to Abram/Abraham, Hagar, Moses, Joshua, King David, Isaiah, etc. and the incarnation of the WORD , it's hard to deny that GOD has chosen to reveal Himself to man in the form of man. That is unless one just doesn't want to know and from having itching ears has gathered teachers to themselves. The LORD will have to judge all of this and sort it out in the end, but I must fellowship with those who hold to sound orthodoxy.

 

[Psalmist]

toldailytopic: Can a person reject the divinity of Christ and still be a Christian?​

No.​

 

[Hardy777]

First, the terms in the question need to be corrected. Christ is the Living Word of God. When God spoke, Christ created the light, man and all of God's creation. Heb 11:26 says Moses esteemed the riches greater then the wealth of Egypt. Christ was the Living Word of John 1:1-2, Christ has always been God. Christ the Living Word is the Word of John 1:14 that was manifested in Mary's flesh and placed the seed of God His Living Word in her at conception. Christ was the Spirit of the Father in Jesus the man that left Jesus shortly before He died on the cross when Jesus cried out, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus the man died on the cross, God or Christ in Jesus did not.

Christ has always been the Living Word Creator God, Jesus the man was exalted to the fullness of the Godhead bodily after His resurrection and is now in equality with God the Father and the spoken Living Word Christ.
Hardy777

 

[nicholsmom]

The Nicene creed defines the church now the way the Scribes and Pharisees defined it in Jesus' time.

'splain that for me, 'cause I'm not seein' it.

As for me and my house, we allow the Bible to define Christianity, not any post biblical creed,

The great thing about the Nicene creed is that it's totally supported by the Bible, so you are way, way off here.

especially when it has the influence of a pagan emperor, Constantine.

Don't you know that Constantine supported the Arian view? The only influence Constantine had was to try to make the non-Christians (Arians) and the Christians to quit bickering bc he didn't comprehend that there is such a thing as Truth which must be upheld. And in spite of his interference, the bishops got the creed done and out into circulation.

Arianism is a heresy. It's the reason that all those bishops got together to create the creed - to make it clear that Arianism is not Christianity because the Arians were leading many astray with their heresy.

 

[nicholsmom]

I agree. I came to Jesus beginning with a private(just me and Him) agnostic prayer, "Jesus, if you're real, if you're there, if you have the authority that you claim you have in the Bible, then please help me." Up until that time, I considered Jesus to be an ordinary man like myself who had attained to a supreme state of higher consciousness. This was a humbling of myself towards Him, based on what true Christians had told me, yet at that time I did not understand from them that He was the infinite Creator GOD, come in the flesh. My wife did not know what I had done, but in a day or so, she asked me to read ICo 1-2.

1Co 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

These and the related verses caused me to consider that my pantheistic worldview might be upsidedown. That Sunday I was motivated to go to a local church, where a guest missionary preacher exegeted ICo 1-2. Jesus had my attention. I received Him as my Lord and Savior and His peace flooded my being.

As I studied the scriptures over time, it suddenly dawned on me that Jesus is GOD in the flesh. I believe that if one has an open mind and humble spirit, then the Holy Spirit will lead one to that conclusion.
The conclusion that Jesus is Deity will lead to a full trinitarian understanding. I don't believe that one must have that understanding to be saved, however if one desires to be consistent with the scriptures and grow in the knowledge of the mystery of GOD, then he will arrive at that conclusion.

How long, do you suppose God will allow a person to go on denying the deity of Christ? Will He let a person go on denying Christ's deity to the point that they preach anti-trinitarianism and lead others astray with this false teaching?