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Tambora

Tambora

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steko said:
I just quote the Lord in Mt 24:31 which is the second coming and is in harmony with what Moses and the Prophets stated about the regathering of Israel back to the land.

Paul speaks of GOD's manifold wisdom, not singular. Eph 3:10

One mustn't conflate their P's and carrots.
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Maybe Interplanner thinks the P's are just spiritualized carrots.
ROFL!
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

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steko said:
According to some, the affirmations there don't say what they say.

Paul abrogated a lot of that stuff.
He took a lot of that stuff and changed it to mean something different.
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Paul often quoted scripture as a "spiritual application" and not in its wooden literal meaning. I good example is Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

​

Note that Paul leaves out the "and it shall come to pass" (as well as mount Zion and Jerusalem), as he is NOT taking it in the context of Joel.

The verse quoted there is about being delivered through the great tribulation. Peter also quotes it in original context with much more of Joel.

Acts 2:14-21 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:14) ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (2:15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. (2:16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (2:18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (2:19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (2:20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: (2:21) And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. ​

Original passage:

Joel 2:28-32 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:28) ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (2:29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (2:30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (2:31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. (2:32) And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. ​

Deliverance for the remnant when the LORD's judgment on the world comes.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Right Divider said:
Paul often quoted scripture as a "spiritual application" and not in its wooden literal meaning. I good example is Romans 10:13

Rom 10:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

​

Note that Paul leaves out the "and it shall come to pass" (as well as mount Zion and Jerusalem), as he is NOT taking it in the context of Joel.

The verse quoted there is about being delivered through the great tribulation. Peter also quotes it in original context with much more of Joel.

Acts 2:14-21 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:14) ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (2:15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day. (2:16) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (2:17) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (2:18) And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (2:19) And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: (2:20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: (2:21) And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. ​

Original passage:

Joel 2:28-32 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:28) ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (2:29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (2:30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (2:31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. (2:32) And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. ​

Deliverance for the remnant when the LORD's judgment on the world comes.
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Yep - parallel, but not identical.

The same principle in both; yet different in application in each.

The same; but different.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Danoh said:
Yep - parallel, but not identical.

The same principle in both; yet different in application in each.

The same; but different.
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Yes, but the great tribulation was the DofJ and then when the 2nd coming happens, the remnant is all who believe without distinction. Thus the quote in Is 10 / Rom 9: even though Israel may number as the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

That's not all Israel! The Israel is qualified--it is those who have faith whether Jews or not.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
Yes, but the great tribulation was the DofJ and then when the 2nd coming happens, the remnant is all who believe without distinction. Thus the quote in Is 10 / Rom 9: even though Israel may number as the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

That's not all Israel! The Israel is qualified--it is those who have faith whether Jews or not.
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The great tribulation and the Day of the LORD have not happened yet. It's also called the "time of Jacob's trouble"; I wonder why....

Yes, the remnant of Israel.... good one.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
The great tribulation and the Day of the LORD have not happened yet. It's also called the "time of Jacob's trouble"; I wonder why....

Yes, the remnant of Israel.... good one.
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He said the events in Judea in the first century were the ultimate tribulation for Israel. The remnant of Israel is all those who have faith. Rom 9:6, 24 to the end, including 4 OT quotes.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Well that's just nonsense. The great tribulation, etc. will be FAR more EXTREME than any of what happened in AD 70.
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It won't because he was talking about 1st century Judea and it was their worst.

He told them their institution was desolate in ch 23. they asked when. He told them how that generation was going to unfold. There is no space case, leap to the future, distant prognostication going on. He is answering direct questions that matter to them and tried to keep them safe through it.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
It won't because he was talking about 1st century Judea and it was their worst.

He told them their institution was desolate in ch 23. they asked when. He told them how that generation was going to unfold. There is no space case, leap to the future, distant prognostication going on. He is answering direct questions that matter to them and tried to keep them safe through it.
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Hogwash. You continue to try to FORCE your will on the Bible. It ain't happening dude.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Hogwash. You continue to try to FORCE your will on the Bible. It ain't happening dude.
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He said many times how decisive that generation was. And besides, it was the greatest calamity of its time and well-documented. Everything substantial took place. And it was that generation of Israel that was appealed to to launch the mission of the Gospel. All the pieces are there.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Interplanner said:
He said many times how decisive that generation was. And besides, it was the greatest calamity of its time and well-documented. Everything substantial took place. And it was that generation of Israel that was appealed to to launch the mission of the Gospel. All the pieces are there.
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Luke 9:27 KJV -
 
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