Cross Reference
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So I'm saying, "what"?
ECT To all who say God doesn't impute Adam's sin to us
- Thread starter musterion
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So I'm saying, "what"?
Israel entered into a Covenant with God wherein they would not only suffer corporately (as a nation) for their sins, but said reaping and sewing would be unto their third and forth generations.
To visit this curse upon them was simply to allow it's repercussions to play out.
This is what Israel meant by "His blood be upon us and our children." They were standing their ground even if it turned they'd been wrong.
The result? 70 AD thru about 135AD.
The beginning of said self-induced sorrow Christ had Prophesied (foreseen) their sin would result in.
70 AD was not God's wrath, as some have concluded. Rather; that was Rome's wrath upon an Israel left without protection when God, rather than pour out His wrath, turned from Israel in His wrath "for a season."
What do Genesis 11 and Romans 1 relate as to how God demonstrated His wrath when He'd finally had enough of the Gentile's idolotry?
He gave them up to their own path.
What does Acts 17 say about that turn from the Gentiles? It too had been for a season.
It is the next point on His calendar in which He will speak to both in His wrath.
At least, according to Paul's "my gospel" it is, Rom. 2:16; 2 Thess. 2: 11, 12.
To visit this curse upon them was simply to allow it's repercussions to play out.
This is what Israel meant by "His blood be upon us and our children." They were standing their ground even if it turned they'd been wrong.
The result? 70 AD thru about 135AD.
The beginning of said self-induced sorrow Christ had Prophesied (foreseen) their sin would result in.
70 AD was not God's wrath, as some have concluded. Rather; that was Rome's wrath upon an Israel left without protection when God, rather than pour out His wrath, turned from Israel in His wrath "for a season."
What do Genesis 11 and Romans 1 relate as to how God demonstrated His wrath when He'd finally had enough of the Gentile's idolotry?
He gave them up to their own path.
What does Acts 17 say about that turn from the Gentiles? It too had been for a season.
It is the next point on His calendar in which He will speak to both in His wrath.
At least, according to Paul's "my gospel" it is, Rom. 2:16; 2 Thess. 2: 11, 12.
The things God did in response to their sin was "for their sake" (Gen. 3:17).
God "increased her conception" (Gen. 3:16). This is a figure of speech called a 'synecdoche', where part of a thing, or in this case the beginning of a thing, refers to the whole. God increased the length of time the baby would stay in the womb. This of course makes for much bigger babies and thus more pain in child birth but it is wisdom and mercy on God's part because it makes for a much stronger baby that is much better able to live in the hostile world that would exist as a result of sin. Thus while it is a consequence, it is not punitive.
I don't see how this is relevant to whether God imputed Adam's sin to us. Christ took on the sin of the world voluntarily and His life is of sufficient value to pay for the sin debt of us all.
As for God imputing Adam's sin to us, there are two things...
First of all it would not be just for God to punish me for something that someone else did, even if that someone happens to be an ancestor. If you doubt this read Ezekiel 18. That entire chapter is dedicated to this exact topic.
Secondly, that which is spiritually dead cannot produce the spiritually alive. Thus we are all born with the result of Adam's sin. This racial condition is a consequence but is not punitive in nature and it was dealt with at the cross (Romans 5). Thus no one is judged according to Adam's sin other than Adam but rather each will be held accountable for what he himself has done. The account being settled either by Christ's death or by their own.
Resting in Him,
Clete
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Last edited:
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Get real.
Conception has nothing to do with the length of pregnancy.
She conceived twins.
1PeaceMaker
New member
No. I don't believe that is the right interpretation of those verses. Why? Because I've experienced 7 drug free natural births and spoken to many women about the subject personally, as well as reading hundreds of birth stories.
The factors influencing maternal pain are many and not all factors are mental, emotional or spiritual. It's true that a woman's state of mind can cause an increase or decrease of discomfort all the way to extremes, but the body also has a few inputs, like the baby's position, maternal health and physical condition, etc.
Bottom line; women are made to give birth and when they do so unhindered they frequently find that birth is not scary or particularly painful. God made women to give birth safely and easily. Many of our birth rituals complicate a simple process into a painful and more dangerous ordeal than God ever intended.
You're stupid.
It wasn't having twins that caused birth pains.
Women who do not have twins have birthing pains, you idiot!
Why do you even bother to post here? I'd be embarrassed!
Silly.
LA
Romans 5 KJV
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Fascinating, Jim:
for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Fascinating, Jim:
for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Yes, yes you are!
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Multiplying her sorrow does not equate to adding pain.:shocked:
Multiplying her conception does mean 1 x 2 = 2
