Time for IMJersusha to eat her hat

[Mocking You]

Thanks.

 

[musterion]

Added link. There's more than those two. Note some are Arminians. Both are dead wrong.

 

[Nang]

Where's the Bible teach His vicarious lawkeeping?

Hebrews 8:6-7, 9:15-16, 12:24-25

This doctrine of Divine Mediatorship has all to do with the Old Covenant of Works being fulfilled by Christ, in order for Him to establish and perform the better and New Covenant of Grace . . . all accomplished as Federal Head of the people given to Him by the Father.

If you want to get into those truths, I would be happy to share more.

If He did keep the Law perfectly for us, and kept it perfectly for Himself, why did He still die?

Jesus Christ did not deserve to die, but He suffered the sentence of death imputed upon the children He represented in His flesh. (Isaiah Chapter 53)

He suffered the wrath and judgment from God due their sins, and died their "second death" (hellfire) on their behalf.

If He did keep the Law perfectly for us,

There is no question that He did so, for Jesus Christ was in the flesh, apart from sin. He is the only Man who ever kept all the moral Law, perfectly.

and kept it perfectly for Himself, why does ANY believer still die?

Regenerate and Redeemed Christians will not suffer the "second death" (Revelation 2:11, 20:6). When this earthly life is over, the bodies of believers will sleep in their graves until the Last Day of the Lord, when they will be raised and reunited with their souls, that have been present with Him in heaven. John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:4-15

There is no sting in this kind of death, for Christ has given His people victory over death and promise of resurrection to everlasting life in glory. I Corinthians 15:54-57; I Thessalonians 4:14-18

 

[Nang]

You said that we need to keep ALL of Jesus' commandments. That was one of them.

I believe Adam was created a moral agent in the image of God, and received commands (Law) from God, that he was responsible to obey. This relationship between God and Adam is theologically referred to as the "Covenant of Works" which Adam failed to keep.

Because Adam was federal head of the human race, when he failed to keep the Covenant of Works/Law, sin and death was imputed to him and to all his future offspring. And no man since Adam has ever achieved keeping this old Covenant. This original Covenant, breached by all the sons of Adam, condemns all men to death and hellfire, because no one can perform it. Romans 3:10-19

Just because man cannot keep the Law or please God by works tainted with corruption and sin, does not mean the Old Covenant of Works is no longer valid. It is still binding upon all the sons of Adam. All souls are born into the world under this Old Covenant, and remain accountable to obey all the commands of God; but none of us by nature are able to do so.

Such a dilemna and tragedy is why the Father sacrificed the Son, who alone, as the Son of Man, could fulfill the Old Covenant of Works, perfectly, and thereby, rightfully establish and perform the better and New Covenant of Grace; transferring His spiritual offspring from death to life, and to rescue His elect from all condemnation under the Law. Romans 8:1

 

[musterion]

Hebrews 8:6-7

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

9:15-16

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

12:24-25

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

Do you never tire of lying about God's Word? You will be judged for it.

 

[Nang]

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

Nothing there about Him in His earthly life keeping the Law on the behalf of believers.

Do you never tire of lying about God's Word? You will be judged for it.

You are simply in denial that all persons are responsible and accountable before God, to keep the Old Covenant of Works (Law).

It was NECESSARY the Old Covenant be fulfilled and kept perfectly, in order that men be rescued and freed from its condemnation and its sentence of death. It was NECESSARY the Son come in flesh, born of woman under the Law, and perform all righteousness for His people held in bondage to sin, death, and the devil. (Hebrews 2:10-18)

Only the one Mediator between God and men, achieved this feat . . . not for Himself, but on behalf of His church who were at first, all consigned to death and hell, under the Law.

If you would only read and study the book of Hebrews; particularly Chapters 7 through 10, you would see I do not lie regarding this Gospel message.

". . He (Jesus Christ) said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God.' He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, once and for all . . .

. . This Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies be made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,' says the Lord: 'I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.' Then He adds, 'Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'" Hebrews 10:9-17

 

[patrick jane]

Hebrews 8:6-7, 9:15-16, 12:24=25

This doctrine of Divine Mediatorship has all to do with the Old Covenant of Works being fulfilled by Christ, in order for Him to establish and perform the better and New Covenant of Grace . . . all accomplished as Federal Head of the people given to Him by the Father.

If you want to get into those truths, I would be happy to share more.



Jesus Christ did not deserve to die, but He suffered the sentence of death imputed upon the children He represented in His flesh. (Isaiah Chapter 53)

He suffered the wrath and judgment from God due their sins, and died their "second death" (hellfire) on their behalf.



There is no question that He did so, for Jesus Christ was in the flesh, apart from sin. He is the only Man who ever kept all the moral Law, perfectly.




Regenerate and Redeemed Christians will not suffer the "second death" (Revelation 2:11, 20:6). When this earthly life is over, the bodies of believers will sleep in their graves until the Last Day of the Lord, when they will be raised and reunited with their souls, that have been present with Him in heaven. John 5:28-29; Revelation 20:4-15

There is no sting in this kind of death, for Christ has given His people victory over death and promise of resurrection to everlasting life in glory. I Corinthians 15:54-57; I Thessalonians 4:14-18

15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

i wonder who Paul was speaking to in Hebrews :help:

 

[patrick jane]

You are simply in denial that all persons are responsible and accountable before God, to keep the Old Covenant of Works (Law).

It was NECESSARY the Old Covenant be fulfilled and kept perfectly, in order that men be rescued and freed from its condemnation and its sentence of death. It was NECESSARY the Son come in flesh, born of woman under the Law, and perform all righteousness for His people held in bondage to sin, death, and the devil. (Hebrews 2:10-18)

Only the one Mediator between God and men, achieved this feat . . . not for Himself, but on behalf of His church who were at first, all consigned to death and hell, under the Law.

If you would only read and study the book of Hebrews; particularly Chapters 7 through 10, you would see I do not lie regarding this Gospel message.

". . He (Jesus Christ) said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God.' He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will, we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, once and for all . . .

. . This Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies be made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 'This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days,' says the Lord: 'I will put My Laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.'

Then He adds, 'Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.'" Hebrews 10:9-17

View attachment 19546

 

[musterion]

You are simply in denial that all persons are responsible and accountable before God, to keep the Old Covenant of Works (Law).

Rom 2:12.

1 Cor 9:21.

I'm on to you, troll. No one of your advanced age and assumed church background would make a ignorant blunder with Scripture like that. Don't know who you are, but I know who you are not.

 

[Nang]

15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

i wonder who Paul was speaking to in Hebrews :help:

Why do you give partial references?

Your question is answered in Hebrews 9:15-16 . . . those who are "called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." These are for whom Christ fulfilled all righteousness, whose sins He bore, and for whom He died.

This Gospel message, inspired by the Holy Spirit, is for "us" where the risen Lord is in "heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Hebrews 9:23-24

". . .But now, once in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:26b-28

I believe these "who look for Him" to return, are His elect church of the firstborn, as described in Hebrews 12:22-29.

 

[Nang]

Rom 2:12.

1 Cor 9:21.

I'm on to you, troll. No one of your advanced age and assumed church background would make a ignorant blunder with Scripture like that. Don't know who you are, but I know who you are not.

I do not blunder . . . you just do not comprehend God's Word, because you have been blinded by delusional teachings, and fail to study all of it as you should.

Those two verses refer to Gentiles who were not under the obligations of the formal Jewish Decalogue. However, the teaching of Paul in Romans Chapters 1 - 3 reveals all men of all races are sons of Adam; born under the natural Laws of Creation, and are all sinners, for they too, are accountable and responsible to keep the original Covenant of Works (Law). The Old Covenant of Works is binding upon every single human being. And none can keep this Covenant in order to live. That is why death is universal.

All men are born under the Laws of God, and without excuse for their sins and unbelief. Romans 1:18-21

 

[Right Divider]

I believe Adam was created a moral agent in the image of God, and received commands (Law) from God, that he was responsible to obey. This relationship between God and Adam is theologically referred to as the "Covenant of Works" which Adam failed to keep.

Because Adam was federal head of the human race, when he failed to keep the Covenant of Works/Law, sin and death was imputed to him and to all his future offspring. And no man since Adam has ever achieved keeping this old Covenant. This original Covenant, breached by all the sons of Adam, condemns all men to death and hellfire, because no one can perform it. Romans 3:10-19

Just because man cannot keep the Law or please God by works tainted with corruption and sin, does not mean the Old Covenant of Works is no longer valid. It is still binding upon all the sons of Adam. All souls are born into the world under this Old Covenant, and remain accountable to obey all the commands of God; but none of us by nature are able to do so.

Such a dilemna and tragedy is why the Father sacrificed the Son, who alone, as the Son of Man, could fulfill the Old Covenant of Works, perfectly, and thereby, rightfully establish and perform the better and New Covenant of Grace; transferring His spiritual offspring from death to life, and to rescue His elect from all condemnation under the Law. Romans 8:1

Your understanding (and I use that term loosely) of the covenants in the Bible is completely bogus. You have teachers that are filling you full of nonsense.

The unBiblical concept of the "Old Covenant of Works" and the "New Covenant of Grace" are purely some puffed up human worldly "wisdom". God did NOT make the "Old Covenant of Works" with Adam. That is a complete fabrication by YOU.

The ONLY covenant that the BIBLE refers to as the OLD one is the covenant that God made with Israel.

 

[musterion]

There is no covenant that God made with Gentiles during this dispensation of grace.

Anyone who says they've "inherited" what He cut with Israel is a thief and a fool.

 

[Nang]

The unBiblical concept of the "Old Covenant of Works" and the "New Covenant of Grace" are purely some puffed up human worldly "wisdom". God did NOT make the "Old Covenant of Works" with Adam. That is a complete fabrication by YOU.

The ONLY covenant that the BIBLE refers to as the OLD one is the covenant that God made with Israel.

So, you deny the Adamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, and the Abrahamic Covenant?

You sure?

 

[Nang]

There is no covenant that God made with Gentiles during this dispensation of grace.

How can anyone, Jew or Gentile, be assured of God's saving grace, apart from God's promises (covenants)?

Anyone who says they've "inherited" what He cut with Israel is a thief and a fool.

No one is saying this but MADists . . .

Go figure.

:dizzy:

 

[Right Divider]

So, you deny the Adamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, and the Abrahamic Covenant?

You sure?

Quit TRYING to put WORDS in my MOUTH, you wicked deceiver.

There are MANY covenants in the Bible. I have ALWAYS said that there are, so WHERE would you get the idea that I have SAID otherwise?

NOWHERE in the BIBLE does it say that God made a COVENANT with Adam, much less call it "the Old Covenant of Works". That is just something your lying mentors have fooled you into believing.

You are a liar and a deceiver and you should STOP lying and deceiving.

 

[musterion]

How can anyone, Jew or Gentile, be assured of God's saving grace, apart from God's promises (covenants)?

The Gospel of grace is a promise. Its terms include no covenant. Isn't that good enough for you?

 

[Nang]

The Gospel of grace is a promise.

Yes it is a promise, which is a covenant established by God.

Its terms include no covenant.

God is a Coventantal God, and every word He speaks is a certain surety and promise.

In the beginning He commanded Adam to morally obey His words and Adam would live; disobey His words and Adam would die. That was absolute and certain truth revealed in Covenant form.

Jesus Christ fulfilled that Covenant so that in Godly grace, He might be made the Surety of the New Covenant wherein life is restored to spiritually dead men.

And because this New Covenant is performed by God for man, there are no human terms to be met. Saving grace is unconditional upon any actions, decisions, or works of man. The new and better Covenant of Grace is all a gift from God. Ephesians 2:1-10.

Isn't that good enough for you?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The ONLY covenant that the BIBLE refers to as the OLD one is the covenant that God made with Israel.

:up:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I do not blunder . . . you just do not comprehend God's Word, because you have been blinded by delusional teachings, and fail to study all of it as you should.

This is a terrific closer/stumper for your list, saint john w.