Thieves should be shot - not jailed.

[Clete]

All of the things that I have had stolen over the years boats, trailers, 10 speed bicycle as I recounted above and other things, only one has been recovered, an ATV that the neighbor kid took that was recovered the next day.



Fast forward 3 years and the same kid is now in prison in Florida for being involved in a drug related murder.

Okay, so what's your point?

It sounds like a critique of a just law from within an unjust legal system. (i.e. question begging)

The fact is that if our legal system was just, the likelihood is that none of that stuff would have ever been stolen from you in the first place and recovering any of it that had would have been very much easier because no one in the society would have tolerated a thief, never mind enabled him to get away with being a thief.

Clete

 

[ok doser]

Okay, so what's your point?

It sounds like a critique of a just law from within an unjust legal system. (i.e. question begging)

The fact is that if our legal system was just, the likelihood is that none of that stuff would have ever been stolen from you in the first place and recovering any of it that had would have been very much easier because no one in the society would have tolerated a thief, never mind enabled him to get away with being a thief.

Clete

My point was that whatever punishment was meted out to him was not effective in deterring him from engaging in bigger and better crimes.

 

[Gary K]

Nah, don't shoot them. Just cut off their hands.

The Democrats will go for that since it comes from Islam.

 

[Clete]

My point was that whatever punishment was meted out to him was not effective in deterring him from engaging in bigger and better crimes.

That's because he wasn't punished justly. If it had been done unto him as he had done to his neighbor, he would have stopped.

And, in fact, that isn't quite right really. If that were the law, he almost certainly would never have committed the crime in the first place. In a nation with a just criminal justice system, crime is quite rare. It happens, of course, but not even remotely close to the degree that it happens in modern society where convicted criminals get sentenced to free room and board.

Clete

 

[The Horn]

Most of the world's countries abolished the death penalty long ago . Our government should do the same . Executing people merely for robbery and thievery is barbaric, period . US states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which do not .
The death penalty does not reduce crime and murder rates or make people safer . In fact, it costs less money to put someone in prison for life than to execute him or her . The constant appeals waste an enormous amount of money . And there is too much risk of executing the innocent , which has happened in some cases in recent years and happened in the past in the USA .
And in the long run, life imprisonment is far more unpleasant than being executed .

 

[Right Divider]

Most of the world's countries abolished the death penalty long ago .

Most of the world's countries hate God and His rules.

Our government should do the same .

Nope. Those that choose to murder others have forfeited their right to life.

Executing people merely for robbery and thievery is barbaric, period .

Ok... if we followed God's rules, they would live and give restitution.

US states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which do not .

Well isn't that wonderful.

The death penalty does not reduce crime and murder rates or make people safer .

It does reduce the number of murders by one each time.
I feel safer when a known murdered is removed from the planet.

In fact, it costs less money to put someone in prison for life than to execute him or her .

What does that have to do with a just punishment for the crime. One of the reasons for the higher cost is the delay in swift judgment caused by an unjust system.

The constant appeals waste an enormous amount of money .

Yes, swift judgment is the correct answer.

And there is too much risk of executing the innocent , which has happened in some cases in recent years and happened in the past in the USA .

And that should certainly be avoided with an actual just system.

And in the long run, life imprisonment is far more unpleasant than being executed .

So you want to be even more cruel?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Most of the world's countries abolished the death penalty long ago.

As RD said, because they hate God.

Our government should do the same.

And what happens when, because the government does so, the crime rate skyrockets?

What would convince you that the death penalty is a deterrent against crime?

Executing people merely for robbery and thievery is barbaric, period.

Good thing that that's not what the Bible, nor God-fearing Christians (especially on TOL) teach should be done.

US states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which do not.

There are more factors than just "does the state have the death penalty."

There's also: Time from crime committed to catching the criminal, time from catching the criminal to putting him on trial, time from beginning of trial to sentencing, (assuming the criminal who committed the capital crime is sentenced to death (which they hardly ever are)) the time from sentencing to execution....

In other words, simply saying "US states with the death penalty have higher murder rates than those which do not" does not tell the whole story.

It would be far more accurate to say this: "The death penalty is not CURRENTLY a deterrent due to how complex the legal system is."

It CAN be, but people like you go against what God says in the Bible, that a swift punishment causes men to not set their hearts on doing evil.

The death penalty does not reduce crime and murder rates or make people safer.

Again, it does not CURRENTLY do so, due to contributing factors. If capital criminals were caught, sentenced, and punished (executed) within 24 hours of sentencing, the deterrent effect would be MUCH higher than it is currently.

In fact, it costs less money to put someone in prison for life than to execute him or her.

You're actually arguing that zapping someone with an electric chair costs more than feeding, clothing, hydrating, entertaining, legally representing, etc, etc, etc, a criminal for the rest of his life?

Someone isn't using their God-given brain.

The constant appeals waste an enormous amount of money.

Indeed they do. They're part of the problem with the CURRENT system, not God's system, which does not allow criminals to appeal the judge's decision.

And there is too much risk of executing the innocent,

It's just as bad executing an innocent person as it is letting a criminal go free to commit more crime.

God says so.

which has happened in some cases in recent years and happened in the past in the USA.

There is no way to 100% guarantee that you will never put to death an innocent person, and trying to do so will only allow more criminals to go free. Both are equally undesirable and wicked, so the effort should be made to minimize both, by doing as God says (because He knows better than you do) and punishing the convicted criminal according to His guidance, and sparing the innocent.

And in the long run, life imprisonment is far more unpleasant than being executed.

As RD said above...

Now you just want to be cruel?

NOWHERE in the Bible does God tell men to lock up criminals like animals for committing a crime.

It's dehumanizing. Criminals are people too. They may act like animals, but for that I blame the public education system.

Doesn't change the fact that they're people, and deserve to be treated like human beings, even when punishing them for their crimes.

 

[Clete]

Ezekiel 13:19 And will you profane Me..., killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live...?”