Right Divider
Body part
Paul received a different gospel from the Lord.
These are NOT the same gospel
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Right Divider
Body part
There are a lot of references to the term "The Fifth Gospel" out on the web and most look pretty shady. Do you have more info?
musterion
Well-known member
THE UNITY OF THE BODY - By A. A. Sandoz
Scripture Reading: Romans 12:5; Ephesians 4:4 David in the Psalms wrote concerning his physical body that he was, "fearfully...
paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What does this gospel state?
Galatians 1:12
King James Version
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I agree that the Apostle Paul received the "good news"l which he preached among the Gentiles from the Lord Jesus. But what was the"gospel of the circumcision" which was fist preached to the Jews?:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
What was the Gospel "good news" that was first preached to the Jews and resulted in salvation for all those Jews who believed?
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
What was the Gospel "good news" that was first preached to the Jews and resulted in salvation for all those Jews who believed?
Right Divider
Body part
The "gospel of the circumcision" is roughly the same as the "gospel of the kingdom" (i.e., the kingdom that God promised to Israel). That is why, when Christ first sent the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel to preach the "gospel of the kingdom", that He sent them to Israel only. Matthew 10:5-7
That gospel has a future salvation as mentioned by Peter in 1 Peter 1:5.
The "gospel of Christ" is broader than the "gospel of the circumcision".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The salvation spoken of by Peter at 1 Pet.1;5 is the same salvation spoken of in the following verse by Paul;
"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Ro.3;11).
this salvation is speaking of the time when christiasn will put on immortal bodies like the body of the lord Jesus ( Phil.3;21).
The "good news" of Christ that was first preached to the Jews concerns the Lord Jesus' identity.
He told the Jews the following:
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-240.
The Jews should have believed that he is the Son of God and the Christ. and the Jews who believed that truth were saved and given new life and saved the moment they believed. John wrote:
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30[310.
The Lord Jesus also said the following to those Jews:
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Ro.3;11).
this salvation is speaking of the time when christiasn will put on immortal bodies like the body of the lord Jesus ( Phil.3;21).
The "good news" of Christ that was first preached to the Jews concerns the Lord Jesus' identity.
He told the Jews the following:
"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-240.
The Jews should have believed that he is the Son of God and the Christ. and the Jews who believed that truth were saved and given new life and saved the moment they believed. John wrote:
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30[310.
The Lord Jesus also said the following to those Jews:
"“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).
Right Divider
Body part
You are proving again that you do not understand the different between Israel and the body of Christ. Peter was writing specifically to Israel: "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people".
The body of Christ is NOT "a royal priesthood" NOR "an holy nation".
P.S. Again you cherry-pick and connect two verses without warrant.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The subject we were discussing was the two different gospels and you have not said anything that contradicts what I said. all you did was ot change the subject.
With the following words of Peter in view do you not see that his salvation was already accomplished?:
"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8-11).
With the following words of Peter in view do you not see that his salvation was already accomplished?:
"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8-11).
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Galatians 1 ESV
(8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Did Peter, John, and James preach another gospel?
If so, they should be accursed for it.
(8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Did Peter, John, and James preach another gospel?
If so, they should be accursed for it.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Paul knew the Apostles would be preaching to the Jews, right? They were still preaching works mixed with faith, I'm thinking.
I've heard the other gospel is referring to this stuff. Preachers trying to draw people back into the law. Just as they do nowadays, actually.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
I like what Paul says here about the reason his gospel was different. Christ in you, the hope of Glory.
Ga. 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
Yes.
If they were preaching another gospel of Christ than what Paul was preaching then Paul says it should be accursed.
So, were they preaching another gospel of Christ than what Paul was preaching?
I would have to answer "no" because I find it difficult that their preaching should be accursed.
I will point out that Paul calls the law (which is what the twelve were preaching to the Jews) a curse.
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” ), - Galatians 3:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3:13&version=NKJV
Though, I don't believe that that's quite what he's talking about when he talks about another gospel.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Where do we see John preaching grace through faith? He is still preaching commandments and law. We can see what John and Peter preached and it's an interim type thing....endure to the end....still a faith and works gospel which the Jews have been given.
I don't think Paul is speaking of the apostles at all, but of those who are subverting his gospel of grace by adding law back in again.
The law itself taught grace through faith.
It was the law that told of a spotless one that would be put to death so men could live.
Anytime one brought a sacrifice they received grace by being forgiven and cleansed.
And it was the law that taught that the just shall live by faith.
I don't think anyone in the OT thought that it was the actual act of killing an animal that cleansed them.
Any heathen could do that.
Any heathen could be circumcised in the flesh.
It was never the act that cleansed, it was what the act represented.
There's nothing wrong with doing the law as long as you don't think it is the act itself that accomplishes cleanliness.
The only difference I see between believing Israelites and believing Gentiles is that the promise of a restored earthly kingdom was for the nation of Israel only and not for all Gentile nations.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm surprised you see grace in the law.
That catches me by surprise.
Even made me forget what I had planned out to say.
Okay, "It was never the act that cleansed".....I can agree with that. But it certainly was a salvation by works and faith. Noah is the perfect example of that.
Not the letter of the law, but what the law revealed.
The law revealed that, because of a spotless one, you would receive a pardon (that you didn't earn) instead of the guilty verdict you deserved (that you did earn).
That's grace.
The works of the law (ie. the ritualistic deeds that were done) demonstrated the grace of God.
For while those works of the law were performed by various entities (from the sacrificial offering itself to the high priest) ALL were a demonstration of what God Himself would do alone.
Christ was the offering and the high priest and everything in between.
Noah was not the only one saved on the ark from the flood.
And the remnant of 2 of those son's descendants would persecute the remnant of the other son's descendants.