The Word of God?

k0de

Active member
What is sin?
The broad concept of sin as failing to live up to an expected standard of conduct or as a violation of cultural customs or laws can be seen in every culture and society throughout history. Various religions also see sin as a violation of the divine will.

Source: The Lexham Bible Dictionary

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k0de

Active member
If being a Christian means believing the whole bible is the word of God, and especially the words in the gospels and epistles as they represent Christ and his doctrine, then I guess it should be said that all Christians should believe in slavery. The treatment of slaves was first covered in the OT, then reiterated in the NT. Have you read Philemon and St. Paul’s epistles? Slavery as an institution is supported by the Bible.

I'm black and a Christian. So how is it that you say all Christians believe in slavery?

Being under Christ’s authority in those days didn't mean that believers are free of all civil or social authority.

Paul was saying that slaves should serve their human masters as though they were obeying Christ. Graeco-Roman slavery in the first century was a civil or social authority. Not Christianity.

In fact the Bible was a huge part of Martin Luther King movement.

For short "Let my people go" (Exodus 5:1)

And have you listened to "I have a dream" speech? It's nothing but scripture and scripture of hope out of the mouth of the Dr.

Like idolater I'm starting to disconnec from you to. May the Lord Jesus Christ richly bless you.



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Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Idolator, regarding your post above; are you familiar with what the Catholics did to the Chumash people in California during the Spanish Mission Period? If what you are saying about Catholics and slavery is true, then it is a relatively recent change.

During the Spanish Mission Period In California, the Catholics literally enslaved and eliminated an entire race of human beings.
I'm aware of plenty of atrocities committed by Catholics all throughout history, and I'm familiar also with all the atrocities committed against Catholics all throughout history. Who knows the score in that 666 game. Which is why I've told you repeatedly that Christ's Resurrection is, to quote the 'Catechism,' the "central" and "crowning" fact of the Christian faith. Christ is either risen, nonfiction historical fact, or He is not, and His Resurrection is fictional. Christians believe He is risen from the dead. If He is risen from the dead, then the Christian faith is confirmed true. Everything you're worrying about and prodding at is from the viewpoint that the Resurrection is fictional, which is your right to believe, but you're not engaging with anybody because you're insisting upon this presumed premise in order to converse, and we don't accept your premise. If you want to converse fine, but you're just not going to get anywhere if you won't at least accept that we do believe in Christ's Resurrection, even if you do not, and the Resurrection is like a lens through which we see everything else, which is reasonable and valid, given the implications if the Resurrection is indeed nonfiction historical fact.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Guyver said Jesus is not God of the Bible. He said the God of the Bible is Jesus's
God.
Oh. Guyver also believes that Matthew 28:6 KJV, Mark 16:6 KJV, and Luke 24:6 KJV are all lies. I encounter plenty of Christians on TOL who deny that the Lord Jesus is God /deny the Trinity, but who still nonetheless profess to believe in His Resurrection from the dead, so I consider them siblings in our one shared faith. We at least have this one thing that we can build upon, but this Guyver thinks the Resurrection was a hoax, and hasn't addressed my point from earlier that believing the Resurrection was a hoax, is most likely tantamount to believing that Jesus, John the Baptist, the Disciples (including Judas Iscariot), and the Apostle Paul were all part of a suicide pact. Since Guyver never responded, we never began to explore the possible reasons for why all these men would agree to such a suicide pact---whatever could they have been hoping to achieve? Anyway, a suicide pact is the most reasonable explanation afaik for all of the death /martyrdoms. Why would so many people go to their deaths (almost exclusively through horrible, torturous killings) willingly, over what they know is a hoax? And if they had been duped, why wouldn't at some point people just stop confessing their faith anyway, to avoid being horribly, torturously killed? That Christ's Resurrection was just a hoax, doesn't explain all the death. That it was part of a suicide pact does.
 

Guyver

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The broad concept of sin as failing to live up to an expected standard of conduct or as a violation of cultural customs or laws can be seen in every culture and society throughout history. Various religions also see sin as a violation of the divine will.

Source: The Lexham Bible Dictionary

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Thank you for your response. So, to answer your questions, sin came from people.
 

Guyver

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I'm black and a Christian. So how is it that you say all Christians believe in slavery?

You didn't understand my post? I said Christians believe in slavery because the bible teaches it is right.

What makes you think a person has to be black to understand slavery? At one time or another, it is likely that every type of person has been enslaved, not just black people.
 

Guyver

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Guyver said Jesus is not God of the Bible. He said the God of the Bible is Jesus's
God.

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right. Because that's what the bible says. Jesus said, in my Fathers house are many rooms, not in my house are many rooms. check John 8:54 for another helpful verse.
 

Guyver

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I'm aware of plenty of atrocities committed by Catholics all throughout history, and I'm familiar also with all the atrocities committed against Catholics all throughout history. Who knows the score in that 666 game. Which is why I've told you repeatedly that Christ's Resurrection is, to quote the 'Catechism,' the "central" and "crowning" fact of the Christian faith. Christ is either risen, nonfiction historical fact, or He is not, and His Resurrection is fictional. Christians believe He is risen from the dead. If He is risen from the dead, then the Christian faith is confirmed true. Everything you're worrying about and prodding at is from the viewpoint that the Resurrection is fictional, which is your right to believe, but you're not engaging with anybody because you're insisting upon this presumed premise in order to converse, and we don't accept your premise. If you want to converse fine, but you're just not going to get anywhere if you won't at least accept that we do believe in Christ's Resurrection, even if you do not, and the Resurrection is like a lens through which we see everything else, which is reasonable and valid, given the implications if the Resurrection is indeed nonfiction historical fact.

Oh I see..... to put it another way.....if I don't say a few magic words, Christians don't want to talk to me. Got it. Whatever. It may be that Christians don't like my words because it's easier to dismiss things than think about them objectively and without cognitive bias.
 

Guyver

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Oh. Guyver also believes that Matthew 28:6 KJV, Mark 16:6 KJV, and Luke 24:6 KJV are all lies.

How is it that you think you have the right to speak for me? You just lied. what does the bible say about liars?

I'm literally asking you and everyone else another question that you can't answer. What does the bible say about ALL LIARS.

Think it over now. Do your best, you know like you're supposed to. Christians are supposed to be honest.......right?
 

Guyver

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Oh. Guyver also believes that Matthew 28:6 KJV, Mark 16:6 KJV, and Luke 24:6 KJV are all lies. I encounter plenty of Christians on TOL who deny that the Lord Jesus is God /deny the Trinity,

Why don't you try criticizing the bible instead of me? It is the bible that says different things about the same things, not me.

The bible says Jesus is God and Not God. You figure it out. I'll give you one thing though....if Jesus is actually God, then he is his own father. So, that's weird.
 

Right Divider

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Why don't you try criticizing the bible instead of me? It is the bible that says different things about the same things, not me.

The bible says Jesus is God and Not God. You figure it out. I'll give you one thing though....if Jesus is actually God, then he is his own father. So, that's weird.
No, it does not say that.
 

chair

Well-known member
You didn't understand my post? I said Christians believe in slavery because the bible teaches it is right.

...

The Bible doesn't teach the slavery is right. It assumes that slavery exists, and sets rules on how slaves are to be treated.
 

JudgeRightly

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The Bible doesn't teach the slavery is right. It assumes that slavery exists, and sets rules on how slaves are to be treated.
God doesn't regulate sin.

If slavery was wrong, then He would have forbade it, not told His people how to manage their slaves.

Slavery is a good thing, when used appropriately.

It's good for deterring warmongering nations, and it's a good punishment for those who cannot pay off debt.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
How is it that you think you have the right to speak for me? You just lied.
'Beg to differ. I didn't "speak for" you, I referred to something that you wrote.
Not even remotely if Christ's Resurrection is nonfiction historical fact, no.
Sorry. No. It is not a historical fact. The Bible is not a book of history. Well, check that, I take it back because I don’t want to invest the time in debating what a book of history is. Christ’s resurrection is supported by the Bible and one spurious reference in history. That makes it a possibility, and not a historical fact.

If you want to believe it, and it helps you be a better person, then I support your belief 100%
So now you're denying that you think that Matthew 28:6 KJV, Mark 16:6 KJV, and Luke 24:6 KJV are lies? You think they're true now? Remember nothing is both true and false in the same way and at the same time, and you said and I quote you again, "It is not a historical fact." Which is it. Fact or fiction. Truth or falsehood. History or fantasy. Yes or no. "It is not a historical fact." That's what you wrote.
what does the bible say about liars?
The Bible says that bishops are authentic teachers of the Christian faith in all matters of faith and morals. Lying is a moral matter. So we just read the 'Catechism.' What we (ancient Christians) don't do, is what you continue to presume that we all do, which is to study our Bibles and whatever we feel that God is leading us to believe about it, is therefore what God wants us to believe. That's Protestant. It's novel. Invented in the 1500s. Whereas the bishops were invented in the first century, within the Apostolic era, by the Apostles themselves. The bishops today hold that same office that was instituted by the Apostles. This office is authorized to teach the authentic Christian faith in all matters of faith and morals. Lying is a moral matter.
I'm literally asking you and everyone else another question that you can't answer. What does the bible say about ALL LIARS.
Supra.
Think it over now. Do your best, you know like you're supposed to. Christians are supposed to be honest.......right?
:idunno: Apparently you know our religion better than we do. I don't know why you bother asking questions.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Oh I see..... to put it another way.....if I don't say a few magic words, Christians don't want to talk to me. Got it.
No.
Whatever. It may be that Christians don't like my words because it's easier to dismiss things than think about them objectively and without cognitive bias.
You're wrong a lot. I think that's why Christians "don't like" your words.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Why don't you try criticizing the bible instead of me?
I have nothing to criticize.
It is the bible that says different things about the same things, not me.
We disagree about how to interpret the Bible.
The bible says Jesus is God and Not God. You figure it out. I'll give you one thing though....if Jesus is actually God, then he is his own father. So, that's weird.
Again, we heed the authorized teachers of the Christian faith; the bishops. The bishops teach the Trinity. The Father is not the Son. There is distinction between the Father and the Son. The Father generates the Son. The Son does not generate the Father.
 

Guyver

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'Beg to differ. I didn't "speak for" you, I referred to something that you wrote.

You accurately quoted our conversation and any intelligent person can see what you did. You spun my words into something they were not. I spoke truth, ironically...in a later post you claim I’m wrong a lot. I’m sorry to inform you that just because you believe something it isn’t automatically true. What I said was truth. You don’t like it, but that doesn’t make it wrong.


Right. Misconstrued and not properly understood.

:idunno: Apparently you know our religion better than we do. I don't know why you bother asking questions.

I can’t claim to be an expert on your or any religion. But I will tell you that I am a confirmed Catholic. If that means anything to you FWIW.

But I will tell you that I can be considered an expert on the Bible simply because of the number of hours of study that I have in it.
 

Angel's Girl

New member
But I will tell you that I can be considered an expert on the Bible simply because of the number of hours of study that I have in it.

I don't know exactly what ya'll are arguing about and I'm not gonna say your wrong or anything, I just want to state that even Christians that go to Bible College or Pastors that study the bible their whole life can't consider themselves experts. No-one can because no matter how many times you read it, some of the word you read will have different context or as you age you can apply it differently. I'm not gonna say you absolutely clueless or that you don't know. More likely you are very intelligent when it comes to the word, I don't know you so I can't say much. I'm just saying, no matter your faith (even Christians themselves),can't call themselves an expert of the word or Bible. I say all this as said to me by many Pastors who have studied and studied.
 
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