The Word Made Flesh

[Word]

Create.

You believe that God created the Spirit of Life?

 

[Word]

Create.

There are only two types of spirits in all of God's creation.

Holy Spirits and unholy spirits.

Do you believe that God is the origin(created) of unholy spirits?

 

[Aletheiophile]

There are only two types of spirits in all of God's creation.

Holy Spirits and unholy spirits.

Do you believe that God is the origin(created) of unholy spirits?

Of course. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But you have to understand what good and evil are. Good in Hebrew (tov) is functional. Evil (ra'a) is dys/mal/nonfunction. Within function is the potential for dysfunction. This is most often achieved by adding to God's functional order, such as how the serpent added to the word of God in deceiving Eve.

God is thus not directly responsible for evil, but indirectly through the potential for dysfunction within function.

But that is the glory of the Gospel, that through Christ God fills all dysfunction with function, there no longer being potential for dys/mal/nonfunction.

This by no means implies that God intends dysfunction, but rather because it is subordinate to created functonal order, it was already conquered before creation. It was never a battle. Evil pretends there is conflict, but God's function always reigns. Because function reigns over dysfunction, God fills/repurposes all evil for function.

So even the work of those unholy spirits will be subverted by the Lord of Glory.

If God did not create all, then He is subordinate to creation. That cannot be.

 

[Word]

Of course. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

But you have to understand what good and evil are. Good in Hebrew (tov) is functional. Evil (ra'a) is dys/mal/nonfunction. Within function is the potential for dysfunction. This is most often achieved by adding to God's functional order, such as how the serpent added to the word of God in deceiving Eve.

God is thus not directly responsible for evil, but indirectly through the potential for dysfunction within function.

But that is the glory of the Gospel, that through Christ God fills all dysfunction with function, there no longer being potential for dys/mal/nonfunction.

This by no means implies that God intends dysfunction, but rather because it is subordinate to created functonal order, it was already conquered before creation. It was never a battle. Evil pretends there is conflict, but God's function always reigns. Because function reigns over dysfunction, God fills/repurposes all evil for function.

So even the work of those unholy spirits will be subverted by the Lord of Glory.

If God did not create all, then He is subordinate to creation. That cannot be.

How did God give life to the unholy spirits?

 

[Aletheiophile]

How did God give life to the unholy spirits?

As He did all things. At creation He spoke all things into existence. Evil originated after creation. He spoke once, and did not stutter.

 

[Word]

As He did all things. At creation He spoke all things into existence. Evil originated after creation. He spoke once, and did not stutter.

God did not speak evil into existence.

The origin of evil is good.

Evil is the opposite reaction to good.

Therefore when good came into existence evil was thus born.

So that brings me back to the very same question
I have already asked you in regards to
that which you have stated you believe
and you have yet to answer...

Did God create the Spirit of Life.

Note*** God did not create life for God himself is life
unless of course He created Himself ...first.

 

[Aletheiophile]

God did not speak evil into existence.

The origin of evil is good.


Evil is the opposite reaction to good.

Well put!

So that brings me back to the very same question
I have already asked you in regards to
that which you have stated you believe
and you have yet to answer...

Did God create the Spirit of Life.

Note*** God did not create life for God himself is life
unless of course He created Himself ...first.

He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.

 

[Word]

Well put!



He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.

Are the seven Spirits of God
found recorded in the Book of Revelation, Holy Spirits?

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes,which are the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the earth.

 

[Word]

Well put!



He Himself is the Spirit of Life, so no, He did not create it. If you are referring to the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit proceeded forth at creation. Speech is accomplished via breath. In both Hebrew and Greek, spirit and breath are the same word (Ruach and Pneuma). At creation both Word and Breath (Spirit) proceeded.

So He did not create the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God came forth.

So tell me, how can God be the origin of any unholy spirit?

 

[Aletheiophile]

Are the seven Spirits of God
found recorded in the Book of Revelation, Holy Spirits?

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts,
and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,
having seven horns and seven eyes,which are the seven Spirits of God
sent forth into all the earth.

Especially in visionary passages, numbers are often used symbolically. Seven is the number of completeness, and so seven is not referring to a quantitative number of spirits, but the qualitative perfection of the Spirit of God.

 

[Word]

To know whom the origin of unholy spirits would be
would we not need to look to that which made them unholy?

Or do you believe
they were Holy Spirits
that by whatever cause
became unholy?

 

[Word]

Especially in visionary passages, numbers are often used symbolically. Seven is the number of completeness, and so seven is not referring to a quantitative number of spirits, but the qualitative perfection of the Spirit of God.

Did the Spirit of truth tell you this?

Or did you get this from another man?

 

[Word]

Besides God does not need a number to symbolize His perfection.

Or rather there is no number that can
be used to symbolize Him in any way.

He created perfection. Therefore He is above it.

 

[Aletheiophile]

To know whom the origin of unholy spirits would be
would we not need to look to that which made them unholy?

Or do you believe
they were Holy Spirits
that by whatever cause
became unholy?

As we already discussed - originally good and fell to dysfunction. Revelation 12

Did the Spirit of truth tell you this?

Or did you get this from another man?

Yes? Both.

Besides God does not need a number to symbolize His perfection.

Or rather there is no number that can
be used to symbolize Him in any way.

He created perfection. Therefore He is above it.

I appreciate your line of thought. The Hebrews simply used numbers in their writing. It was John's attempt to express what he saw in his vision. He used the rhetorical devices he was familiar with, and using numbers for abstract concepts is certainly one of them. Just as 7 are the days of creation and the 7th day the day of perfect rest, 7 is God's number. Other completion number as 10, 12, and 40.

 

[jamie]

Of course there are spirits. But God is not one among many. He is THE Spirit which gave all breath of life to all other spirits (all of which have some outer form.)

Spirits don't need air, they don't have to breathe to live. Life is imparted to them through Christ their Creator.

 

[Aletheiophile]

Spirits don't need air, they don't have to breathe to live. Life is imparted to them through Christ their Creator.

...You didn't understand my post. Breath/Spirit/Wind are all the same word in both Hebrew and Greek. God's spirit is still the source of life. "Breathe life" is both literal and figurative.

 

[Word]

As we already discussed - originally good and fell to dysfunction. Revelation 12



Yes? Both.



I appreciate your line of thought. The Hebrews simply used numbers in their writing. It was John's attempt to express what he saw in his vision. He used the rhetorical devices he was familiar with, and using numbers for abstract concepts is certainly one of them. Just as 7 are the days of creation and the 7th day the day of perfect rest, 7 is God's number. Other completion number as 10, 12, and 40.

God does not have a number. He does not represent himself by a number.

Never has and never will.

God created the way to measure an amount.

Now man on the other hand, represent God in many ways.

 

[Aletheiophile]

God does not have a number. He does not represent himself by a number.

Never has and never will.

Now man on the other hand, represent God in many ways.

That's what I'm saying. The human author of John represented God by a number. (This does not deny the inspiration of scripture.)

 

[Word]

Oh I take that back...

What is the number for infinity?

There I gave you the correct number to represent God.

 

[Word]

That's what I'm saying. The human author of John represented God by a number. (This does not deny the inspiration of scripture.)

Spirits is plural is it not?

He did not write the seven Spirit of God.

He said seven Spirits.

Were there seven churches
or just one church represented by the number seven?