The Women Who Ought to Remain Silent in the Assemblies of God

[cgaviria]

There are a few scriptures that instruct certain women to keep silent in the assemblies of God, here is the first verse,

[34] Let your women in the assemblies be quiet! for it is not committed to their care to speak, but let them be submitted! as also the law says. [35] But if any shall want to learn, in the house, let them ask their own husbands; for it is shameful for women to speak in the assembly.
(I Corinthians 14:34-35 [ABP])

And here is the second verse,

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(I Timothy 2:11-15 [ABP])

Now, the Greek word for woman is "gyne", which could mean a woman or more specifically a wife. The usage of the word to mean a wife can be seen in this verse,

Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?" (Matthew 22:28 [NIV])

Now, all women are not wives, since any woman that is unmarried is therefore not a wife, she is a "single woman", as we call it today's day. And if you look closely at the I Corinthians 14:35, you will notice that these women being instructed to "ask their own husbands" are women that are married, because a married woman has a husband. The same applies to the 1 Timothy passage where it says "women will be saved through childbearing", only a woman who is married to a husband will child-bear. Therefore, these passages of women to keep quiet, are not referring to all women, it is referring to wives specifically. Wives are the women that are to keep quiet in the assemblies of God, not all women, or rather, not single women. Why? Because it is the wife's husband that should assume the authority between them two, which is why the passage in 1 Timothy says, "assume authority over a man". This verse isn't saying that women shouldn't be teachers over men, it is talking about wives having authority over their man, their husband, and should thus not teach, because it is her husband the one that should teach, and not his wife.

When a woman becomes married, she comes under submission to her husband,

And to the woman he said, In multiplying I will multiply your distresses, and your moanings. In distresses you will bear children, and to your husband your submission, and he will dominate you. (Genesis 3:16 [ABP])

When a woman comes under the submission of marriage, it is then that she must be quiet. However, if a woman is unmarried, she may indeed speak in the assemblies of God, because she is not under submission to need to be quiet. Even so, marriage will indeed become a former thing, as it is said here,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [NIV])

So does it not stand to reason that if all people that are resurrected will all as be as angels one and the same, not being of the gender of a man or a woman, that indeed God has given just as equal ability for an unmarried woman to teach just as a man? This is why we are encouraged to not marry, because marriage will soon become a former thing, and there will be no distinction between a man or a women in the resurrection, and here is where Paul encourages all who are unmarried or widowed to remain single,

[7] For I want all men to be as even myself; but each has his own favor from God; one so, and another so. [8] But I say to the unmarried and to the widows; it is good for them if they remain as even I.
(I Corinthians 7:7-8 [ABP])

In "to be as myself", Paul was referring to him being unmarried. And even in this verse we also see the same thing concerning marriage,

But concerning what you wrote to me; It is good for a man to not touch a woman. (I Corinthians 7:1 [ABP])

A man comes to "touch" a woman when he marries a woman. This also coincides with this saying of Jesus,

[11] And he said to them, Not all have space for this word, but to the ones whom it has been given. [12] For there are eunuchs, the ones who from the mother's belly were procreated thus; and there are eunuchs, the ones who were made eunuchs by men; and there are eunuchs, the ones who made eunuchs of themselves on account of the kingdom of the heavens. The one being able to have space, let him have space!
(Matthew 19:11-12 [ABP])

Now, men and women are not commanded to not marry, but instead, encouraged to not marry, as it is better to remain single to give full devotion and service to the Lord. Yet if a woman does indeed marry and becomes a wife, she must then come under submission and keep quiet in the assemblies of God and not teach.

 

[Yorzhik]

Yeah, but the problem with this idea is that single women tend to be worse at thinking rightly than married women. So I'm going to say that God had all women in mind when he said they shouldn't teach.

 

[jamie]

So I'm going to say that God had all women in mind when he said they shouldn't teach.

And you would be wrong. If the holy Spirit had meant all women Paul could have used the Greek thelus which means female.

There is a difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

 

[Nanja]

No Elect Child of God will be found in any of the world's religious assemblies Rev. 18:4.

 

[cgaviria]

No Elect Child of God will be found in any of the world's religious assemblies Rev. 18:4.

Correct.

 

[Yorzhik]

And you would be wrong. If the holy Spirit had meant all women Paul could have used the Greek thelus which means female.

There is a difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

No, I'd still be right. Paul was speaking in general for good reason. He didn't say what he said because a woman gets "demoted" when she gets married. He said what he said because of the way men think as opposed to the way women think and not because of an arbitrary whim of God.

 

[cgaviria]

No, I'd still be right. Paul was speaking in general for good reason. He didn't say what he said because a woman gets "demoted" when she gets married. He said what he said because of the way men think as opposed to the way women think and not because of an arbitrary whim of God.

You speak foolishly, not knowing that not only was man created in the image of God, but also woman, hence,

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27 [NIV])

As such, there is no distinction between man or woman in the Lord, hence,

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28 [NIV])

Yet because of the law of marriage, women that become wives must submit to the authority of their husbands. Yet any unmarried woman is as capable of becoming great in the kingdom of God as any man of God.

 

[Yorzhik]

You speak foolishly, not knowing that not only was man created in the image of God, but also woman, hence,

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27 [NIV])

As such, there is no distinction between man or woman in the Lord, hence,

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28 [NIV])

Yet because of the law of marriage, women that become wives must submit to the authority of their husbands. Yet any unmarried woman is as capable of becoming great in the kingdom of God as any man of God.

But then single women would be as great as men in any endeavor. But they're not. That's why God had different rolls for men and women.

This relates to an idea I was introduced to recently where men and women consume/absorb each other. It's a great deal more in line with what the bible teaches. It not only shows how men and women become one flesh in marriage, but it also shows how men and women relate in society as a whole.

God is not just God in the church, but the creator of all that's good in every part of our lives.

 

[RBBI]

That's good, but take it farther. Male and female created He THEM, means that both were created spirit/male and female/soul. It is the SOUL that He wants to be silent within the body, because "she" can only speak of soulish things. Whether that soul is in a male or a female body after the flesh, makes no difference.

 

[jamie]

No, I'd still be right. Paul was speaking in general for good reason. He didn't say what he said because a woman gets "demoted" when she gets married. He said what he said because of the way men think as opposed to the way women think and not because of an arbitrary whim of God.

Should a woman be submissive to a man?

 

[cgaviria]

But then single women would be as great as men in any endeavor. But they're not. That's why God had different rolls for men and women.

This relates to an idea I was introduced to recently where men and women consume/absorb each other. It's a great deal more in line with what the bible teaches. It not only shows how men and women become one flesh in marriage, but it also shows how men and women relate in society as a whole.

God is not just God in the church, but the creator of all that's good in every part of our lives.

Let me ask you this, in the world, since the beginning, has there ever been at least one woman who was greater than at least one man?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jamie]

Let me ask you this, in the world, since the beginning, has there ever been at least one woman who was greater than at least one man?

Do you mean besides Deborah?

Or do you mean besides Phoebe who ministered to the congregation at Cenchrea?

 

[cgaviria]

Do you mean besides Deborah?

Or do you mean besides Phoebe who ministered to the congregation at Cenchrea?

Any woman, pick one. And then compare her to a male bum on the street. There are plenty of those here in south Florida. So, has there been any woman greater than any man?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[ok doser]

Let me ask you this, in the world, since the beginning, has there ever been at least one woman who was greater than at least one man?

Mary was greater than Judas Iscariot :idunno:

 

[musterion]

My wife.

 

[cgaviria]

Mary was greater than Judas Iscariot :idunno:

There we go. I have just proven that a woman can be greater than any man. Why? Because both are created in the image of God. A cow cannot be greater than a man, nor a donkey, nor a lizard, because they are not created in the image of God. However, a woman can because she is also created in the image of God, and there have been women than are greater than men.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[ok doser]

There we go. I have just proven that a woman can be greater than any man. ...

well, no

what you've proven is that one particular woman can be seen to be greater than one particular man

 

[Yorzhik]

Should a woman be submissive to a man?

Depends on the situation.

 

[Yorzhik]

Let me ask you this, in the world, since the beginning, has there ever been at least one woman who was greater than at least one man?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Sure.

 

[cgaviria]

well, no

what you've proven is that one particular woman can be seen to be greater than one particular man

If that is so, then the opposite can also be said about a man being seen to be greater than women. But this is not so, some men are greater than certain women, and some women are greater than certain men. Whoever says women are incapable of being greater than men is ignorant.