God's Truth
New member
No. Paul says to reconcile yourself to God. If all are already reconciled, then Paul would say believe you are already reconciled. What you preach is nonsense.
The Vicarious Life and Death of Christ for the Believer
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
No. Paul says to reconcile yourself to God. If all are already reconciled, then Paul would say believe you are already reconciled. What you preach is nonsense.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You're both wrong. All men are reconciled by Christ's death.....from God's viewpoint. But we, as individuals, must be reconciled to God.
Peace is always a two way street. There will be no peace unless both parties agree.
God reaches down and man must reach up...just like the picture in the Sistine Chapel.
God has given His hand, and we must each give ours.
God's Truth
New member
You haven't proven that I am wrong. What a joke.
I am not wrong. The scripture plainly says that, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.
All that is required of us is to accept the offer of reconciliation. Plus nothing.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you have a statement....which alone is incomplete and, therefore, wrong. Which is why you have to add the caveat IN YELLOW.
One half of an equation is not enough, Robert. This is exactly what you do when you say, "Christ is the end of the law."
There are caveats that MUST be included in order for it to be true.
Like "for righteousness" and for "those who believe", or "accept the offer of reconciliation."
I think that is called adding to God's word. You don't believe that "Christ is the end of the law?" I don't have any trouble with that. whether I believe it or not, it is true.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, what you did was subtracting from God's word. Please pay attention, Robert. This matters.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Those words you left out are critical to your statement. Do you not see how you have adulterated God's word? The JW's add an A to God in John 1:1, and that is an adulteration. What you do is really no better.
As your nemesis says, "Words matter."
No wonder you are so hard-hearted towards grace.
You think love is tit-for-tat and must be earned.
Tip-me-hat! :e4e:
God's Truth
New member
There is no such kind of gospel that you speak.
Grace is not earned, foolish woman.
Grace is not tit-for- tat, moron.
Your deceit is wicked.
I frequently quote half scriptures if I am trying to make a point. I think that the point that I was trying to make is that the law has been abolished by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:15. Therefore, Christ is the end of the law, which is true.
God's Truth
New member
It is not wicked to obey Jesus.
It is wicked to say, as you do, that grace is earned.
Romans 4:4
New International Version
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
New Living Translation
When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned.
English Standard Version
Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Berean Study Bible
Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation.
Berean Literal Bible
Now to the one working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.
New American Standard Bible
Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
King James Bible
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Christian Standard Bible
Now to the one who works, pay is not credited as a gift, but as something owed.
Contemporary English Version
Money paid to workers isn't a gift. It is something they earn by working.
Good News Translation
A person who works is paid wages, but they are not regarded as a gift; they are something that has been earned.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
International Standard Version
Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation.
NET Bible
Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation.
New Heart English Bible
Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as debt.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But the wages of one who labors are not accounted to him as a favor, but as that which is owed to him.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
When people work, their pay is not regarded as a gift but something they have earned.
New American Standard 1977
Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due.
Jubilee Bible 2000
But unto him that works, the reward is not reckoned as grace, but as debt.
King James 2000 Bible
Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
American King James Version
Now to him that works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
American Standard Version
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.
Darby Bible Translation
Now to him that works the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but of debt:
English Revised Version
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt.
Webster's Bible Translation
Now to him that worketh, is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Weymouth New Testament
But in the case of a man who works, pay is not reckoned a favour but a debt;
World English Bible
Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as something owed.
Young's Literal Translation
and to him who is working, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt;
God's Truth
New member
The 'WORKS' that USED TO clean and justify---it is the WORKS of the LAW and those are the PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL works the Jews used to have to do to have a relationship with God; those are the works that the Gentiles did not do, which made them enemies of God and dead in their sins.
Nope.
The works of the law included much much more than just cleaning rituals.
God's Truth
New member
No. BECAUSE, the JEWS were NO DIFFERENT than the Gentiles---except that the Jews were willing to do the COMMANDED purification/ceremonial works!
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then you should stop, because you're missing the point.
Pate butchers passages, ignores preceding/following passages, deletes words, replaces words, adds words, and translates Romans 10:4 KJV as "Christ ended the law."
That is his MO on TOL.
Romans 10:4 KJV-in context..
The very design of the law, is to to bring men/women, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, for justification and salvation, as He alone gives that forgiveness/pardon, and resurrected life which the law shows the want of, but cannot provide. The Lord Jesus Christ is the "end game," so to speak, the culmination of God's holy law, in the sense that it has pointed to him, as the school master, and has been finalized/realized in him. God's holy law has not ceased to have a necessary function, nor has it ceased to have any value, nor is it void. Survey Romans 7.......
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The Lord Jesus Christ has not abolished/destroyed the law....
Matthew 5 KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
......but the LORD God, through His Christ, has replaced it as the standard for righteousness, with His Christ. In this sense he has culminated the law as the "end game"/focal point of the purpose of God's holy law-Christ is the end game of the law.
But the book, in no way, asserts that God's holy law is destroyed/does not exist, or is "abolished."
The Lord Jesus Christ, being the "it is finished," is the holy law's goal, its climax, its inevitable outcome. Coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did, is thus the resultant "end", the goal, with Him being the consummation to whom the holy law of God points.
Again, Paul does not say, or even imply, that the Lord Jesus Christ abolished/terminated the validity, function, and relevance of God's holy law. The purpose of this law, and most of "the volume of the book,"is to point us to our innate human need for a Savior, to "get us out" of our dire predicament, and realize that the law is now no longer our slave driver, as we came to Christ, and we are no longer under its jurisdiction, as pertaining to the penalty of sin(salvation), or the power of sin(sanctification), nor is it our "source for our "walk"-he is our "end."
Romans 3 KJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Christians are instructed by the LORD God, through Paul, to use the existing law as a witness to the righteousness of God without the law:
Romans 3:21 KJV But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
1 Peter 1:9 KJV Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Pate: You don't believe that the faith of those believers Peter addressed has not ended?!!!!!! Their faith has ended, it is abolished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Revelation 21:6 KJV
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Pate: Christ ended himself-he no longer exists, as He is abolished!!!!