You have clearly implied free Will here. You don't see it, but it's there.
The Timelessness of God
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
You have clearly implied free Will here. You don't see it, but it's there.
Let me get this straight .....
It seems that you are saying that 'BEFORE' and 'AFTER' happen in timelessness as well as time?
Then what is the difference???????????????
Sequence and time are inseparable. You can't have sequence without time.
Does scripture show GOD doing anything that is NOT in sequence?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Omniscience . . .
Was it Adam that made the thorns and weeds appear, or GOD?
Would you consider thorns and weeds to be 'order' or 'calamity'?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Man was created with a will which was free, conditioned upon whether he choose to live according to God's commands. Man used his will (moral agency) to disobey rather than obey, which was wicked.
Since that original sin, mankinds' will is naturally held enslaved to serving only sin, death, and the devil and no longer can be called a "free" will.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Thorns, weeds, and painful childbirth are manifestations of divine judgements against sin. They are calamities caused by A&E, but orderly justice rendered by God for their disobedience.
The same way He could predict a man named Cyrus would come along and do something neat.
Didn't have to have timelessness to do that.
Does God "predict" anything, or "know" it?
Only GOD made them appear, Nang.
Why He did it does not negate the fact that He did it.
Do you consider thorns and weeds as 'order' or 'calamity'?
Predicted, knowing full well that He had the capability to cause what He predicted to happen.
No timelessness required.
Hold on.
Adam had a will that was free, but still conditional on living according to GOD's will.
What has changed? Man still has that same condition, does it not?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Both . .
They are calamities caused by A&E, but orderly justice rendered by God for their disobedience.
Cause and effect of wickedness, manifested.
(It was the conscious willfulness of Adam to disobey the holy command, that caused sin and brought justice upon himself and all his future progeny. This was the Covenant of Works breached. Hosea 6:7)
Nang
TOL Subscriber
No. Mankinds' will is now held in bondage to sin. He cannot and does not want to serve God. This is spiritual death caused by sins and transgressions. (Ephesians 2:1-3) But all unsaved souls are still held accountable under this old Covenant of Works to obey God's Law, and all men continue to breach it, just like A&E.
This is exactly why God promised a Seed to Eve who would rectify this calamity. Genesis 3:15 This is the new Covenant of Grace that a remnant of mankind will be rescued under, and freed from the Law and works, in order to serve God in righteousness, by faith in Jesus Christ unto everlasting life. Romans 3:19-31
old Covenant of Works=made up term-no scriptural backing-winged it-from her "Reformed/Deformed" SOF-not in the book.
the new Covenant of Grace=made up term-no scriptural backing-winged it-from her "Reformed/Deformed" SOF-not in the book.
Nope. Adam & Eve did not make the thorns appear.
Cannot change the fact that GOD is the only one that made them appear.
No one else helped GOD make the thorns appear.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
You do not believe in the law of cause and effect?
Nothing changed about GOD wanting man to do what He commands.
It's the same He wanted of A&E.
No matter how much the surrounding environment changed (thorns and death and all that calamity going on), GOD wanting man to do His command never changed.
This has to do with why one would measure time.
You didn't ask me why time was measured, you asked me HOW it was measured.
They WHY may very well be anything but arbitrary but the HOW is.
I agree...
Genesis 1:14 - And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
You cannot even say the words "exists outside of time" without contradicting yourself, as I've already argued in another post. The entire idea is a self-defeating falsehood.I also submit that the concept of time travel is based on anomalies of Einsteins theory of relativity. This seems whacky... but...
Before you jump on the idea that Einestein isn't valid, note that physicists are now experiencing mysteries in the "micro" (particle) aspect of physics that are pointing to time being a type of "dimension" that assists in the allocation of space and the universe. If you go into the concept of a teseract...
#
...You will find that complex math, Physics and Astro-physics are repeatedly pointing to the fading universe being subject to a mysterious observer that is beyond the fading universe that is "bound to the decay of death."
The ephemeral keeps showing itself subject to something infinite. This is a debate point for the scientific proof of the existence of God.
It also shows that God intended us to conceptualize time, though, He Himself is outside of it.
# Conjecture, but stoutly supportable conjecture.
So GOD is bound to react to what man does?
And if thorns and weeds are 'good' and 'order' then why are they gonna be burned up?
Was the tree of knowledge of good and evil a good tree?