Do you pray the same things for everyone or do you know who the believers and unbelievers are? Because many people believe that we just pray for our fellow believers. For what part do we have with the world?
ECT THE SIN THAT LEADS TO DEATH ?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Do you pray the same things for everyone or do you know who the believers and unbelievers are? Because many people believe that we just pray for our fellow believers. For what part do we have with the world?
It is God's desire that all men be saved. We should pray for that.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
If such was truly God's will, then all men would be saved and there would by no Judgment Day, nor Second Death. (Rev. 20:20:14-15)
Wrongful praying for universal salvation, is exactly what we are NOT to pray for.
God's justice (Christ's vicariuous death), nor His saving grace (regeneration via the Holy Spirit), was ever provided or promised for all.
That is the false teaching of Unitarianism, Arminianism, etc.
Jesus Christ did not die for all mankind, but only for an Elect chosen by God to receive the Covenant promises. This was the will of God established before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:4-11; I Peter 1:2; Romans 8:29-30
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Nang
TOL Subscriber
When sinners are gifted with faith to believe, God grants them repentance. Acts 5:31; 11:18; II Timothy 2:25
Man does not produce either faith or repentance. Both are solely the gifts of God.
Both faith and repentance are evidence of God's forgiving grace . . . not the means to gain such.
It is not inherent in sinful men to believe in God or turn away from sin. That is the tragedy of the fall.
Salvation comes only from the grace of God; centered in the vicarious sacrifice and death of Jesus Christ alone.
I don't see the instruction to pray for that. Is it like praying for God's kingdom to come? Should we do that? Do you understand what I am asking? How it relates to to the question at hand of if we should pray for unbelievers or not? For that matter should we pray for believers? In other words should we just pray for ourselves?
I am simply saying that if you want forgiveness you must repent, not that God does not grant repentance.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
And I am claiming that no fallen sinner WANTS to repent or be forgiven. It is not in any of us.
God must FIRST regenerate and change our hearts and wills through the gifts of faith and repentance to realize our justification in His sight.
God is the cause. Our faith and repentance is the effect.
Never vice-versa.
Sinners are never the cause of being forgiven. All mercy, grace, and legal pardon resides with the Judge Eternal.
If it is not true that God desires all men to be saved please reconcile the following verses.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Read 1 Timothy 2:3-4 and 2 Peter 3:8-9
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I believe all God's promises were designated to a particular, elect people. The "any" and "all" in these verses pertain to "any" and "all" of those chosen for salvation in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.
To apply these promises universally, presents the problem of why empirical evidence clearly shows not all men believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why then will multitudes suffer the second death and judgement of hell if it is supposedly the will of God they be saved?
Is it because God is unable and fails to save all universally, or is it because universal salvation was never the correct proposition and promise made?
I do not advocate universal salvation though I still believe God would have all men be saved. That does not mean that they will be.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
If God wills such, why does it fail to occur?
Because God still puts limitations on what is required for salvation. Belief that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sin was buried and resurrected on the third day according to the scriptures.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
What is required?
This defines faith . . which spiritual understanding and belief comes only by the Holy Spirit as a free gift from God. Ephesians 2:8-10
Natural man would and will never, so confess Jesus Christ. Their hard hearts of stone and corrupted minds prevents any such profession of faith.
God MUST first regenerate the heart and mind of sinners by the power of His Holy Spirit, implanting this truth and belief in their new hearts and GIVING them the "mind of Christ" with which to will to believe and confess this gospel. I Corinthians 2:16
Amen
So, how does God determine who He regenerates, and who He leaves alone?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I do not know . . .
Thank you for being honest.
Would you agree that logic would follow that if God simply decided, before the foundation of the earth, whom He would save, and would not save, arbitrarily, that it would make Him inherently unjust, and therefore not worthy of our worship?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
What would be unjust about saving some from the deserved judgment against all?
Is there any such thing as a sinner that deserves or who has earned God's mercy and grace?
NO.
All of us deserve to be held guilty for our sins. Any just Judge would so rule.
Is God unjust for extending grace and pardon to some sinners, just because it is not universal?
Why not all, then? Why only save some? Why this person, and not that person? You haven't answered my question, so...
Allow me to reword it, because it is foundational to answering your question:
Would you agree that logic would follow that if God simply decided, before the foundation of the earth, whom He would regenerate, and would not regenerate, arbitrarily, that it would make Him inherently unjust, and therefore not worthy of our worship?
None deserve His mercy or His grace.
But my question is challenging exactly what you are proposing God did.