It is probably not a good idea to fast over something you don't understand. It may not help you to understand it better. Maybe someone else can help.
ECT The resurrection... specifically, the rapture.
- Thread starter Jacob
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Livelystone
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Fasting is our purposeful affliction of the soul while crying out to God for help.......... if nothing else I hope you understand this much from our conversation this evening.
However, I afraid it seems as if you are preferring the answer of a man who agrees with what you want to hear rather than going to God who is the supplier of all of our needs.
Have a nice night,
Doug
If you are searching for life in Christ, why would you afflict your soul? I have been asking this same question my entire life maybe? It just keeps developing. If you don't have the answer that is okay I can keep searching.
I read the Bible as a child. Then I learned about theological views, and my first exposure to dispensationalism was after I had already read the Bible I believe. I don't know if I had heard of the rapture prior to this, except that I had read the scriptures. Maybe a sunday school lesson or something.
When the accuser of the brethren is finally cast out of heaven to earth those that paid for their faith with their life are awakened and given white robes (maybe some day someone will chase that subject down) and told to wait 3 1/2 years until their brethren who must also meet their same fate do so at which time they are all given their reward (being said robes which are the body of the first resurrection) and at that point meet up with those that are alive and yet remain (in the air) on their way to a wedding ceremony to be held in Jerusalem.
The so called rapture occurs 3 1/2 years after those under the throne of God are resurrected. Not immediately after.
I don't know about 3 1/2 years and details, whether true or not.
Do you believe satan has already been cast out of heaven? I don't know, but that is what I think.
Rev 20:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
1 Thes 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (this word means precede in the Greek) them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Satan has not yet been kicked out of heaven. When he is he is cast to the earth and goes after those that have the testimony of Jesus for 3 1/2 years, 42 months, or a time, times and half a time whichever you prefer.
I think the translators of the King James likely held the belief that that Satan had already been kicked out of heaven and deliberately mistranslated the word "Epouranios" in its last of five occurrences in Ephesians to read "High Places" instead of "Heavenly places".
Eph 6:10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
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Wrong again, Doug, unless you want make this all about 'you' [us]
Livelystone
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You have a vivid imagination
Jesus said He was in heaven and made that statement while He was standing on earth.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
So did the Apostles make the same claim when they said their "conversation" was in heaven that identified their citizenship as being from heaven ministering to people on earth......... but they never left the earth .
Philippians 3:20 For our (conversation G4175) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
BLB describes Strongs 4175 "politeuma" definition as the administration of civil affairs or of a commonwealth, the constitution of a commonwealth, form of government and the laws by which it is administered
How do you think Stephen saw into heaven just before he died on earth if the Kingdom is not as Jesus said within our midst?
When you learn that heaven describes a righteous relationship with God that allows us in His presence and not a physical place where God lives you will have made a significant improvement
After all, why do you think Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom of Heaven to come to earth if it was not possible?
Try thinking some before you reply !
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I'm not sure. Here is why:
Luke 10:18 NASB - And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Remember, Revelation was written long after Jesus' departure. One would be well advised, I think, to take the scriptures concerning this matter together as a whole and let them speak with a common voice rather than isolating one scripture and using it to establish doctrine. Jesus said much that would call into question His viewpoint in time when saying it.
Before Abraham was, I am?
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OMT: Will you at least concede that there is "catching away" of some sort written about in Rev 12:5?
True, but the quote is from Luke.
... Who reported what he had heard Jesus utter during the latter's lifetime which ended well before John wrote Revelation...and as it concerns the rest of my post?
Is what Jesus spoke of something that already occurred or do you think it was something yet to occur?
I think the vast majority of what scripture has to say on the subject indicates that Satan has yet to be permanently expelled from heaven. When he finally is you will know it. He is not going to be a happy camper and if Jesus didn't show up to stop him there would be no flesh left alive. But for the elect's sake He will come and put an end to it ... well, not an entire end. For whatever His reason, God is going to let Satan loose after a thousand years to give it one last go at storming Jerusalem right before the second resurrection.
Don't ask me why.
If you read Luke and Revelation you can see that satan at some point in time gets cast out of heaven (or rather falls from heaven (is it wrong to say he is cast out of heaven, I don't know)), and at some point and time he is bound and later released before the end when he is thrown into the lake of fire.
Luke 10:18 NASB - And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Revelation 20:2 NASB - And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Revelation 20:7 NASB - When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Revelation 20:10 NASB - And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
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You must remember there is more than one heaven. Satan is not allowed into the one where God resides. Think of the one per Job 1.
Livelystone
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Absolutely,
Being caught up unto God and His throne is being given a position of authority through an anointing rather than any change of physical location let alone being taken off of the earth.
This event is played out in prophecy in multiple scenes throughout the Bible that is of the remnant of chosen from the many who are called. (the same as is the male child from the woman )
Also as the taking of Zion that was the 3rd and final anointing of David by God who completes His work in "3".
Another time can be seen in prophecy through the first miracle of Jesus when he changed the water to wine that is symbolic of the life of Christ........... It was a wedding on the third day when there were 6 (number of man) waterpots for cleansing the Jews (earthen vessels like us prepared to help our brothers and sisters in Christ as we "wash God's feet" who are the rest of the BOC on earth who still need to learn the truth) filled to the brim with water of the word that is Spirit with no room for anything else in us but His Word.
Then it gets changed to wine that is the blood representing His Life who is at the right hand of God just as in Rev:12:5.
All of the above is about the sons of God having the fulness of God appearing in them the same as it was in Jesus
See what Jesus says about them here and then compare this passage with yours in Rev.12:5
Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star. (Jesus is the "morning star" and He will make these sons of God to be just like Him yet still subject to Him)
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star
I know when Christians get the revelation that takes them from the "rapture" as taught in todays church, and in its place gives them the truth of the manifestation of the sons of God on earth, they take a giant leap forward in their relationship with God our Father
I would be very happy to see this happen to you as would the angels in heaven