The Regeneration and Renewal of the Holy Spirit

[Jerry Shugart]

It is a reference to how Paul was saved. He was baptized and received the Holy Ghost the way the rest of the saints did.

Before anyone could be baptized with water when water baptism was in order he first had to believe, as witnessed in these verses:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).

The eunuch received life the moment when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).

There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water does not contribute in any way to anyone being saved.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How so? The word means a new birth, regeneration, renewal

paliggenesia: regeneration, renewal
Original Word: παλιγγενεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: paliggenesia
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: a new birth, regeneration
Definition: a new birth, regeneration, renewal

As I demonstrated in my initial post, the Greek word "regeneration" means the "repetition of a birth."

It is obvious that the reference is not to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth. Paul could only be speaking of a repetition of a spiritual birth. And the words that follow make it certain that the "birth" of which Paul is referring to is a "spiritual" birth--"renewing of the Holy Spirit." If a person is "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit then that means that one must have previously been born of the Holy Spirit.

When a person is conceived he is spiritually alive.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Before anyone could be baptized with water when water baptism was in order he first had to believe, as witnessed in these verses:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).

Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).

The eunuch received life the moment when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).

There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water does not contribute in any way to anyone being saved.

You can't pull one scripture out of the context of the book and build a doctrine. John also said "every one that loveth is born of God".

Does this mean John Lennon had a gospel revelation when he said "It doesn't matter who you love, where you love, why you love, when you love or how you love, it only matters that you love!"?

I hardly think so. John also said that "whosoever is born of God sinneth not".

YOU HAVE TO TAKE ALL OF THEM TOGETHER! However, you'll never get to first base if you refuse obedience. The eunuch's belief with all his heart COMPELLED him to obedience. True belief always compels obedience.



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[musterion]

Who said I'm angry.? I'm not here to express feelings. Nor to debate feelings. I'm here to kill every false doctrine on this site including yours. You don't even know me to say I'm angry, if you say I'm angry with writing well so be it. Don't come at me or to me about feelings, I'm here for doctrine not feelings. Go to somebody else about that. I'm a man not a fagot. I can careless about how you say that I'm feeling, don't has nothing to do with the fact you may burn in Hell, if you don't repent be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and tarry for the Holy Ghost.

You have no idea what you're judging.

 

[turbosixx]

When a person is conceived he is spiritually alive.

Do you have an example from the bible of a conversion that shows what you're talking about?


We know these people are spiritually alive because we are told they are saved.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls..... 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, I'm not ignoring anything l. I know a lot of people want to get away from what Jesus told Nicodemus, and say it is irrelevant to us, but "born of water" is a direct reference to water baptism. That's what Paul calls "the washing of regeneration".

You are totally confused in regard to the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words here:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:5-8).​

Robert V. McCabe writes that "in v. 5 the preposition 'ek' governs two nouns, 'hydor' and 'pneuma,' that are coordinated by 'kai.' This indicates that Jesus regards 'hydor kai pneuma' as a conceptual unity. If 'hydor kai pneuma' is a conceptual unity, this phrase may be taken either as a 'water-spirit' source or a 'water-and-Spirit' source of birth. A good case can be presented for either view in the context of John 3:1–8. With either view, there is one birth that is characterized either as 'water-spirit,' or 'water-and-Spirit.' Neither of these understandings suggest that there are two births, physical and spiritual" [emphasis added] (McCabe, "The Meaning of 'Born of Water and the Spirit' in John 3:5," Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal [Fall 1999], p.85-107).

There is only one birth being spoken of here and in verse 3 the Lord Jesus refers to this birth as being "born again." And here Peter tells us exactly how a person is "born again":

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

A person is born again by the gospel. So the word "water" in this verse is obviously used in a typological sense by the Lord Jesus:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:5-8).​

It is clear that the word "water" is used in a typical sense where the "water" stans for the "word" and we read the following verse which proves this typological relationship:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Eph.5:26).​

The gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) and it is that "word" which results in the birth of the Spirit. The Lord Jesus said:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you have an example from the bible of a conversion that shows what you're talking about?

That is what my initial post on this thread proves!

We know these people are spiritually alive because we are told they are saved.
Acts 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" 41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls..... 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Just like Cornelius they were baptized after they were saved:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" (Acts 10:44-48).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You can't pull one scripture out of the context of the book and build a doctrine.

What did I pull out of context?

You have no reasonable answer to what I said so you accuse me of pulling what I said out of context!

Do you not think that the eunuch received life when he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?:

"But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:31).​

 

[SimpleMan77]

You are totally confused in regard to the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words here:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:5-8).​

Robert V. McCabe writes that "in v. 5 the preposition 'ek' governs two nouns, 'hydor' and 'pneuma,' that are coordinated by 'kai.' This indicates that Jesus regards 'hydor kai pneuma' as a conceptual unity. If 'hydor kai pneuma' is a conceptual unity, this phrase may be taken either as a 'water-spirit' source or a 'water-and-Spirit' source of birth. A good case can be presented for either view in the context of John 3:1–8. With either view, there is one birth that is characterized either as 'water-spirit,' or 'water-and-Spirit.' Neither of these understandings suggest that there are two births, physical and spiritual" [emphasis added] (McCabe, "The Meaning of 'Born of Water and the Spirit' in John 3:5," Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal [Fall 1999], p.85-107).

There is only one birth being spoken of here and in verse 3 the Lord Jesus refers to this birth as being "born again." And here Peter tells us exactly how a person is "born again":

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

A person is born again by the gospel. So the word "water" in this verse is obviously used in a typological sense by the Lord Jesus:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit" (Jn.3:5-8).​

It is clear that the word "water" is used in a typical sense where the "water" stans for the "word" and we read the following verse which proves this typological relationship:

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Eph.5:26).​

The gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5) and it is that "word" which results in the birth of the Spirit. The Lord Jesus said:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Practical application by ALL of the apostles disproves this interpretation. All of them, from Peter to Paul, were consistent when preaching the conversion experience. They ALL baptized converts in water immediately upon them believing, and God filled them with the Holy Ghost.

That is consistent throughout the book of the actions of the Apostles. It is consistent with Peter, Philip, and Paul. It is consistent for Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles.

It is simply the proof of application. Peter received his understanding by spending 3.5 years with Jesus, 16 waking hours a day. Paul received it by direct revelation from heaven.

People like Robert V. McCabe want to take a small passage and think they know how to understand Jesus's intent more than the men who spent 240,000 man-hours in training with Him. More than Paul, who spent the number of hours he did in direct visions, and who then turned around and had every convert that came his way baptized.

I'll take their examples.



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[WonderfulLordJesus]

A person becomes "dead" spiritually when he sins and no one is born dead in sin:

"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas.1:14-15).[/I]

"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death...For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:21,23).

From all of this we can understand that a person does not emerge from the womb in a state described as being spiritually dead. If a person is born spirtually dead as a result of Adam's sin then it would be impossible for him to die spiritually as a result of his own sin. That is because a person must be alive spiritually before he can die spiritually. The very definition of "death" demands that a person must be alive spiritually before he can die spiritually: "the end of life" (Merriam-Webster.com.).

It seems a mute point, as, let's say you're correct as to babies, that womb freshness is doomed. I believe only Jesus Christ was born alive, of the Holy Spirit, but however many angels dance on the head of a pin not an issue, this side of glory. The real point is Saul was spiritually dead. We all came to the cross, spiritually dead. That aside, you're also making quite the stretch babies are born, in essence, with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Seems a bit close to the concept of infant baptism even, doesn't it? And are babies, then, not born with an Adamic nature? If so, how is it babies are not immortal, until their first sin?

You have a mountain of contradictions to scale. Add to this, alright, baby in the same state of the spiritually born again, then gets unborn, but have you noticed something about babies? They are about the most egotistical creatures on earth, cute and dainty as they are, have much difficulty displaying any fruits of the Spirit, until properly reared in the Lord, and, Lord willing, born of the Spirit, by faith in Jesus Christ. There are, in fact, some disturbed babies, who are raising Cain from birth. But up to that point of being trained, it's pretty much, "Feed me." Of note, Jesus Christ went to glory, then sent the Comforter, but not until then. So the Comforter of the revelation of Jesus Christ was already sent, there's a Pentecost for all fresh babies, before the Comforter was even sent? Jesus Christ also explicitly stated the first birth is physical, of the flesh, as distinct from the spiritual birth, John 3, with no indication that second birth was ever in effect.

Flesh is flesh, spirit is spirit. I believe all men's spirits dead, until the baptism of the Holy Sprit, can reconcile this with the whole word of God, babies merely not judicially guilty of sin, yet, but their spirits whatever is inherent to carnal man, until born from above by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Right Divider]

No, I'm not ignoring anything l. I know a lot of people want to get away from what Jesus told Nicodemus, and say it is irrelevant to us, but "born of water" is a direct reference to water baptism. That's what Paul calls "the washing of regeneration".

100% incorrect.

Jesus CLEARLY explains this in the same passage:

John 3:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
​

But you prefer your religion over the Bible.

Born of water in THAT passage is PHYSICAL birth; plain and simple

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Add to this, alright, baby in the same state of the spiritually born again, then gets unborn, but have you noticed something about babies? They are about the most egotistical creatures on earth, cute and dainty as they are, have much difficulty displaying any fruits of the Spirit

Let us look what the Lord Jesus said about this subject:

"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14; NIV).​

Are we to believe that the Lord believed that infants are "dead spiritually" but yet He would say that "the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these"? Of course not!

At another place we see the Lord Jesus speaking about children and here the same truth can be seen:

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Mt.18:1-4).​

We must throw our reason to the wind and imagine that the Lord Jesus was teaching that unless we become "spiritually dead" as are little children then we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven! That is patently ridiculous and common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus did not believe that infants come into this world spiritually dead.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Practical application by ALL of the apostles disproves this interpretation.

So you think that Peter left something out when he explained how a person is born again?:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

 

[SimpleMan77]

So you think that Peter left something out when he explained how a person is born again?:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Do you really think he's talking about them being born again by hearing the word only, or by believing it to the point of obedience?


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[WonderfulLordJesus]

Let us look what the Lord Jesus said about this subject:

"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14; NIV).​

Are we to believe that the Lord believed that infants are "dead spiritually" but yet He would say that "the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these"? Of course not!

At another place we see the Lord Jesus speaking about children and here the same truth can be seen:

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Mt.18:1-4).​

We must throw our reason to the wind and imagine that the Lord Jesus was teaching that unless we become "spiritually dead" as are little children then we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven! That is patently ridiculous and common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus did not believe that infants come into this world spiritually dead.

There's nothing there of any doctrine of "original holiness" or "original life" in your citations. Being like a child is most often more innocent, more teachable, fearful and respectful of parents, and none of the learned guile of adults, but this not due to any inherent virtue that will last, rather a lack of years, lack of having to face the real world and make many difficult choices. You're reading doctrine into scripture that's not there, to suit your argument. Being like a child is not synonymous with being glorified, until puberty or something. It simply blows your theory out of the water that all babies are holy, those children the proverbial "bad seed" that do exist, and how nasty and selfish even good babies can be. What we see, in reality, does not comport with your theory.

As the preacher once said, "You want your child to turn out bad? Just don't do anything at all." But neither does this matter, what anybody thinks of the status of the spirit of a newborn baby, have it your way, then, though you shouldn't claim scripture supports your extrapolations not found in scripture, create doctrines out of whole cloth from scripture passages saying no such thing.

It also begs the question why God made it a point to be the Father of the Lord Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, no flesh father, since, in your economy, all are born Jesuses of Spirit. And what do you know, every other baby of the womb falling short of the Lord Jesus. Remarkable coincidence, in the billions and billions, since, by your doctrine, everybody is born Spirit-filled and prone to nothing but righteousness, by the power of God, which the Holy Spirit is. The Spirit one supposes fails everybody else? In your economy, the spirit of the devils wins out, every time, around puberty? Is that how it works? Or are we, in fact, born with a handicap we got from Adam? The Bible states no flesh can glory before God, but you're saying baby flesh can?

 

[Right Divider]

Do you really think he's talking about them being born again by hearing the word only, or by believing it to the point of obedience?

The self-righteous at work again.

 

[SimpleMan77]

The Regeneration and Renewal of the Holy Spirit

The self-righteous at work again.

Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith by my works.

I'll also show the faith of these by their works:

Abraham went
Noah built
Enoch walked
Sarah conceived
Jacob blessed
Joseph instructed
Moses forsook
Joshua shouted
Rehab hid spies

And on, and on, and on, and....

There isn't one example of faith that wouldn't have been called an "unbeliever" if they would have received instruction from God and chose to not obey and act upon it.

Not one.


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[Right Divider]

Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith by my works.

I'll also show the faith of these by their works:

Abraham went
Noah built
Enoch walked
Sarah conceived
Jacob blessed
Joseph instructed
Moses forsook
Joshua shouted
Rehab hid spies

And on, and on, and on, and....

There isn't one example of faith that wouldn't have been called an "unbeliever" if they would have received instruction from God and chose to not obey and act upon it.

Not one.

• What special work did God give YOU?
• NONE of those people lived during the dispensation of the grace of God, which was given to us THROUGH Paul by the LORD Jesus Christ.
• You refuse God's CURRENT instructions for ALL of the members of the body of Christ!
• It is the obedience of ONE that gets people saved TODAY.
  Rom 5:1-21 (AKJV/PCE) (5:1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (5:2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (5:3) And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; (5:4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (5:5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. (5:6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (5:7) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. (5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (5:9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (5:10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (5:11) And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (5:12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (5:14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (5:15) But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. (5:16) And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification. (5:17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (5:18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. (5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (5:20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (5:21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

THAT is the obedience that saves! You are NOT the ONE!

But you're like the unbelievers; you want to have a righteousness of your own.

Phil 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
​

You're a lawyer.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There's nothing there of any doctrine of "original holiness" or "original life" in your citations.

You did not even attempt to explain why the Lord Jesus would say that the kingdom of heaven belongs to little children:

"Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14; NIV).​

If little children are dead in sin then it would make no sense for the Lord Jesus to say that the kingdom of heaven belongs to them!

We can also see that children are also described as being "an heritage of the Lord":

"Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward" (Ps.127:3).​

According to your mistaken view the Bible teaches that those dead in sin are an heritage of the Lord and His reward!

That is about the strangest thing I have ever heard on this forum.

If infants can be described as being born dead in sin then why would the following verse speak of a baby being "wonderfully made"?:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

How can you reconcile being wonderfully made with your idea that infants are made dead in sin?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you really think he's talking about them being born again by hearing the word only, or by believing it to the point of obedience?

Peter says in no uncertain terms that a person is born again by the word and nothing else!:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

James also makes it plain that we are born by the word:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jms.1:18).​