ECT The Real Most Miisunderstood Passage in the Bible John 3

[Nick M]

Okay, I'll guess. It sounds like those born of the Spirit don't have a body of flesh. Is this talking about our spiritual body after we are resurrected?

That's probably dumb since why wold Nichodemus know that?

That is what the Lord Jesus Christ plainly stated. We don't know where they came from, or where they went. He likens people born of the Spirit to the wind. And that idiot that said "wind" is supposed to be "Spirit" thinks the Lord likened those of the Spirit to be like the Spirit. The problem is, the Bible does not say what people want it to say. It is typical of "Pentecostals".

The prophets spoke of it, so Nicodemus should have known. And the Lord Jesus Christ in his typical fashion mocked him for it. The Israelites used bone boxes, expecting their dry bones to live again. The bone boxes are still being found around the old city area of Jerusalem. Including Simon bar Jonah, aka Peter. He is not buried in Rome. He proselytized, as evidence from Paul's letter to the Romans when Paul offers them the Body of Christ.

 

[dodge]

That is what the Lord Jesus Christ plainly stated. We don't know where they came from, or where they went. He likens people born of the Spirit to the wind. And that idiot that said "wind" is supposed to be "Spirit" thinks the Lord likened those of the Spirit to be like the Spirit. The problem is, the Bible does not say what people want it to say. It is typical of "Pentecostals".

The prophets spoke of it, so Nicodemus should have known. And the Lord Jesus Christ in his typical fashion mocked him for it. The Israelites used bone boxes, expecting their dry bones to live again. The bone boxes are still being found around the old city area of Jerusalem. Including Simon bar Jonah, aka Peter. He is not buried in Rome. He proselytized, as evidence from Paul's letter to the Romans when Paul offers them the Body of Christ.

The Lord Jesus did not "mock" Nicodemus he taught him UN-like your method. Many folks that have no clue about what Jesus "taught" try to badger others into believing their errors just like them.

 

[glorydaz]

That is what the Lord Jesus Christ plainly stated. We don't know where they came from, or where they went. He likens people born of the Spirit to the wind. And that idiot that said "wind" is supposed to be "Spirit" thinks the Lord likened those of the Spirit to be like the Spirit. The problem is, the Bible does not say what people want it to say. It is typical of "Pentecostals".

The prophets spoke of it, so Nicodemus should have known. And the Lord Jesus Christ in his typical fashion mocked him for it. The Israelites used bone boxes, expecting their dry bones to live again. The bone boxes are still being found around the old city area of Jerusalem. Including Simon bar Jonah, aka Peter. He is not buried in Rome. He proselytized, as evidence from Paul's letter to the Romans when Paul offers them the Body of Christ.

So, to Nicodemus' question, Jesus' answer was basically this?

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

There are so many theories on this subject, and it's really just that clear. :thumb:

 

[Nick M]

The Lord Jesus did not "mock" Nicodemus he taught him UN-like your method.

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

 

[Nick M]

So, to Nicodemus' question, Jesus' answer was basically this?

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

There are so many theories on this subject, and it's really just that clear. :thumb:

For the circumcision, it is faith plus works. The Lord Jesus Christ, James his brother, and Peter are very clear on this. But that does not explain born twice.

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

I think it means exactly what it says. What do you think? Also, what do you think of the Israelites having bone boxes.

12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”....24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore.

Don't forget, the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection for sin was hidden from the 12. So what were they preaching when they preached the gospel of the kingdom? Israel was occupied by the Romans.

 

[Danoh]

A note...in Hebrew; in Aramaic; and in Greek, the word for breath or wind, is the same word for spirit.

 

[dodge]

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

It was a question presented to Nicodemus to make him understand that he did not know the very basics af the spiritual aspect. Jesus was not mocking him.

 

[Nick M]

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

 

[glorydaz]

For the circumcision, it is faith plus works. The Lord Jesus Christ, James his brother, and Peter are very clear on this. But that does not explain born twice.

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

I think it means exactly what it says. What do you think?

I agree. We were born once in the flesh, and when we put off this flesh, we will be born again as spirit with a spiritual body. And here it is right here. Thanks, Nick. I love seeing that connection I hadn't seen before. :thumb:

1 Cor. 15:48-50KJV As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.​

Also, what do you think of the Israelites having bone boxes.

12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”....24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore.

Don't forget, the meaning of the death, burial, and resurrection for sin was hidden from the 12. So what were they preaching when they preached the gospel of the kingdom? Israel was occupied by the Romans.

I had never heard about the bone boxes. It is so typically Jewish for them to not understand what was written in their own Scripture. Indeed, they thought the conquering KING would come and sit on David's throne right there in Jerusalem. We see it here.

Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.​

They didn't realize the suffering servant had to come first.

 

[Danoh]

It was a question presented to Nicodemus to make him understand that he did not know the very basics af the spiritual aspect. Jesus was not mocking him.

He was not mocking him.

But He was...reprimanding him.

As ANY Prophet of Israel had always had authority to.

Further - He - IS the Lord.

HIS judgement is EVER RIGHTEOUS judgement.

He was NOT, some fool, on a forum.

 

[glorydaz]

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

He was the ultimate truth smacker for sure. :e4e:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

For the circumcision, it is faith plus works.

Wrong! Here is what the Lord Jesus told the circumcision who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

 

[Nick M]

Wrong! Here is what the Lord Jesus told the circumcision who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

That does not negate the need for works. Matthew 23.

 

[Nick M]

Simon bar Jonah's bone box was located at none other than the Mount of Olives, exactly where it belongs. The heathen likes to trumpet this thinking it disproves Christianity. It does no such thing. It disproves the Roman Catholic non-Biblical claims. Just believe the Bible. After the resurrection, he explained everything to them, so they knew to be there.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That does not negate the need for works. Matthew 23.

So you must think that the Lord Jesus was in error when He said these things since He didn't mention "works":

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Peter was of the opinion that he was saved by grace"

"We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:11).​

Do you think that "works" are compatible with "grace"? Those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[glorydaz]

Wrong! Here is what the Lord Jesus told the circumcision who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

I don't think the law and grace can be mixed. If you live under the law, you will be judged under the law.

Romans 10:4-5 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't think the law and grace can be mixed. If you live under the law, you will be judged under the law.

Romans 10:4-5 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.​

Law and grace cannot be mixed in regard to salvation. Those two things are mutually exclusive. But living under the law does not mean that those who live under it were saved by works of the law plus faith.

Peter lived under the law and according to his own words his salvation was on the principle of grace. And according to the passage which you quoted Christ is the end of law for righteousness to everyone who believes. That would include all believers, even those who lived under the law. That is why we read this:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

At Romans 3:21-24 Paul speaks of the "gospel of grace" and he says that the righteousness of God apart from law was witnessed by the law and the prophets--v.21 (the OT Scriptures). Then in the next chapters he uses David, who lived under the law, as an example of a man "unto whom God imputes righteousness apart from works" (Ro.4:6-8).

 

[glorydaz]

Law and grace cannot be mixed in regard to salvation. Those two things are mutually exclusive. But living under the law does not mean that those who live under it were saved by works of the law plus faith.

Peter lived under the law and according to his own words his salvation was on the principle of grace. And according to the passage which you quoted Christ is the end of law for righteousness to everyone who believes. That would include all believers, even those who lived under the law. That is why we read this:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

At Romans 3:21-24 Paul speaks of the "gospel of grace" and he says that the righteousness of God apart from law was witnessed by the law and the prophets--v.21 (the OT Scriptures). Then in the next chapters he uses David, who lived under the law, as an example of a man "unto whom God imputes righteousness apart from works" (Ro.4:6-8).

I'll admit, Jerry, that I don't know the answers here. I always thought it was because some are putting their faith in the law through their own efforts. What exactly do you mean by "under the law"? To me it sounds like being "under the schoolmaster", under it's control somehow.... as if something was "required", else how can one be "under" it?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'll admit, Jerry, that I don't know the answers here. I always thought it was because some are putting their faith in the law through their own efforts. What exactly do you mean by "under the law"? To me it sounds like being "under the schoolmaster", under it's control somehow.... as if something was "required", else how can one be "under" it?

The original reason why the Jews were placed "under the law" (the Mosaic Covenant) was for this reason:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Ex.19:5-6).​

The Mosaic Covenant was never a means of salvation because if one was going to be saved by keeping the law then they must keep it perfectly (Jas.2:10). The law was given so that the Jews would have the knowledge of things which were sinful (the Ten Commandments). But no Jews were justified in the eyes of God by the works of the law (Ro.3:20).

 

[glorydaz]

The original reason why the Jews were placed "under the law" (the Mosaic Covenant) was for this reason:

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Ex.19:5-6).​

The Mosaic Covenant was never a means of salvation because if one was going to be saved by keeping the law then they must keep it perfectly (Jas.2:10). The law was given so that the Jews would have the knowledge of things which were sinful (the Ten Commandments). But no Jews were justified in the eyes of God by the works of the law (Ro.3:20).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying they are not UNDER the law, but they still maintain the form as a means of tradition. They keep the ceremonies to maintain their heritage or something?