Nope! Years ago, I wuz convinced these dear ones will be taken to be burned.
As in the tares (weeds) as opposed to the wheat in Matt 13.
ECT The rapture is after the tribulation and at the last trumpet
- Thread starter ZacharyB
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As in the tares (weeds) as opposed to the wheat in Matt 13.
musterion
Well-known member
What teacher convinced you?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You are right. It is the unrighteous who will be taken. However, if you are right about the catching up of the saints happening at the following coming of the lord Jesus then why does it say that those people will be left?:
"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).
How can they be "left" since, according to your view, they are going to be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air at that coming?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Or love handles?
Yeah, but no Andy Griffith reruns either.
Well, hopefully most of them were saved, so we can get'm to do Mayberry skits - call it "Citizenship's Arrest! Citizenship's Arrest - is in Heaven!"
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yeah, but no Andy Griffith reruns either.
Well, hopefully most of them were saved, so we can get'm to do Mayberry skits - call it "Citizenship's Arrest! Citizenship's Arrest - is in Heaven!"
There has to be TV Land "up there"?
The mark of us W's-222 "Mr. Cookie Bars" turns into muscle.
At my fighting weight of 190, I still had love handles but with abs. Not a sixer, just abs.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The passage is not about a 'rapture.' It is about what would happen when Judaism's zealots made their police state and tried to fight for Israel's independence in the 60s of the 1st century. That is why it is bad to be taken. Christ was comparing the flood to the 'sweep' of the zealots in Judea at that moment.
This is another reason why these passages must be read about 1st century Judea first. I try to draw a line at v29 because after v29 many global things are said, while before it the setting is 1st century Judea. But then the Noah analogy is given with other exhortations, and the application is to both, or he has gone back to the zealot revolt and given other protective advice.
No one should spend much time dwelling on the rapture:
1, there is not enough clear material
2, the only clear material has to do with how Paul envisioned the calamity of the destruction of Jerusalem taking place in 1st century Judea
3, the book of Rev says on the first page it is about things to happen immediately. Then the book starts over. With a structure like this, how do we know absolutely that the protective rescue which happens in ch 20 is not at the end of the world anyway? Meaning, the previous stuff was about the 1st century and then there is the separate little rebellion at the end of Christ's kingdom, which is now, in which the believers are harrassed but rescued on the last day, the same day that the NHNE is made in a mere moment.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
You have a point, and I'll hash it out later.
What's your view on the last trumpet or trumpets?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Just like Satan to rob the Body of Christ the joy of their Blessed Hope.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That is such an old debate. It has been clearly shown not to be the rapture, but instead the gift of righteousness that Christ brings when this world is changed into the next in a mere moment.
It was so firmly believed that the 2nd coming was about to happen when the earliest letters of Thess were written that Paul had to write and say it has NOT happened! Let that sink in.
The rapture gets no press after that, but the christians in Judea did get a warning and a way of escape from the final conflagration of the destruction of Jerusalem. But, of course, that's history, and history is sin to you.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Just like Satan to rob the Body of Christ the joy of their Blessed Hope.
Interplanner
Well-known member
This is classic text rape. The Titus 2 passage grammar tells you what the blessed hope is with its compound subordinate expression. "The appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior."
This debate is over , and the rapture is once more diminished as a topic, as it should be.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Just like Satan to rob the Body of Christ the joy of their Blessed Hope.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Christ is the blessed hope, Col 3:1-4, not a thing that Christ does, which has scant evidence anyway.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
The glorious appearing is the Blessed Hope.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's right! good! Not the rapture. Whether He lifts a bunch of believers out of the wrath of Rev 20 or just protects them there in place is not said in Rev. 20. But they are with him after that, and it transpires very quickly.
That is very different from wondering if we are rapture ready or if we are to locate it, as though God could not.