SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
This early church?
2 Tim 1:15 (KJV)
Apostasy began in the mid first century, but I should stake my eternal destiny on what someone in 110ad wrote? Or 300ad?
That would be foolish.
The Promise Is to You and to Your Children
- Thread starter Catholic Crusader
- Start date
This early church?
2 Tim 1:15 (KJV)
Apostasy began in the mid first century, but I should stake my eternal destiny on what someone in 110ad wrote? Or 300ad?
That would be foolish.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Can babies be priests?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Neg repping a factual post is childish, and certainly not Christian.
A factual post, perhaps.
2 Tim 1:15 (KJV)
Apostasy began in the mid first century, but I should stake my eternal destiny on what someone in 110ad wrote? Or 300ad?
That would be foolish.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
This is a legitimate question, as the LORD Jesus Christ was baptized at 30, and was a priest.
Regarding infant baptism, how does this fit?
Since the time of Christ, Christians have always understood that baptism is a sacrament which accomplishes several things, the first of which is the remission of sin, both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin; and both original and actual sin in the case of older persons.
Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
1 Peter 3
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
8 souls that did not get wet...at all.
I find that very interesting.
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
8 souls that did not get wet...at all.
I find that very interesting.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, and Peter also said this in Acts 3:
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
The blotting out of sins, per Peter, was not until the Second Coming.
Is that what the church also teaches? Or something contrary?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I believe the catholic church does teach that one can be saved apart from water baptism?
Is this true?
If so, how is this person regenerated apart from water?
If it is possible to regenerate apart from water, why the need for baptismal regeneration?
Is this true?
If so, how is this person regenerated apart from water?
If it is possible to regenerate apart from water, why the need for baptismal regeneration?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
can babies be saints?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Drew Brees?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Yes, indeed, if Jesus Christ chose to die in their stead on the cross.
Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.
This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ"—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.
What a mess. You missed it. Circumcision-the severing of the flesh....separation...Analogy.....
So, woman in the OT were circumcised?
Thanks, Doc.
Very good point. Of course, if a baby dies and goes to heaven he or she is a saint.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Yes, saint john.
The circumcision in Col 2 is "made without hands" but the baptism is "with hands"?
I think not.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus Christ was circumcised on that cross. His flesh (bearing our sins) was cut away from his soul, and spirit. Members of his Body are identified with him on the cross, by baptism, as the Holy Spirit placed us in him AT THE CROSS...not at a water ceremony.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Can babies be priests?