The Parable of the Prodigal Son

dcon

BANNED
Banned
You are reading into the text what you will it to say: it does not say what you will it to say, for the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, and "their kind" obviously did not keep all of the commandments of the Father. There is only ONE who never transgressed any commandment of the Father. Here it is again, and if you do not abide by what it strictly says you end up in the ditch:

Luke 15:25-31 ASV
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called to him one of the servants, and inquired what these things might be.
27 ​And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him.
29 But he answered and said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, and I never transgressed a commandment of thine; and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 but when this thy son came, who hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou killedst for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that is mine is thine.


Again:

1) There is only ONE who never broke or transgressed any commandment of the Father.

The Master makes it very plain throughout the Gospel accounts that it surely is not the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people of which or whom he speaks because he calls them out continually with words like "hypocrite" and so on.

2) There is only ONE of whom it is ever said the all things of the Father are likewise his.

This again cannot be the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people: have you never read about what happened in 70AD? Surely you have! It is rather the Son of whom it is said that all things of the Father are also his, (Luk15:31, Jhn16:15).

John 16:15 ASV
15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.


You cannot proceed any further into the depth of these things if you refuse to force yourself to comply with these two very simple facts, (which is why I laid them out the way I did), for otherwise you too are simply making up your own meaning for the parable to suit what you wish to believe but which does not agree with the scripture. According to your understanding the Father gave all that is His to the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders of the people, because they kept all of His commandments and never transgressed any one of them, (lol).

It appears you need to get some new and improved study principles. :chuckle:
The Scribes and Pharisees were the ones Jesus condemned and who put him to death.
Matt. 23:23
Matt. 15:1
Matt. 23:27
Matt. 23:13
Matt. 23:15
Matt. 23:2
Matt. 12:38
Matt. 23:25
Luke 5:30
Matt. 23:29
Luke 15:2
Matt. 5:20
Acts 23:9
Mark 2:16
Mark 7:5
Luke 6:7
Luke 5:21
Mark 7:1
Luke 11:53
As most people can tell by reviewing these scriptures, the Scribes and Pharisees were the bad guys! Yet, you have no clue! You have me at a disadvantage. I thought I was conversing with someone who knew at least a little bit about the subject under discussion.

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daqq

Well-known member
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by daqq
You are reading into the text what you will it to say: it does not say what you will it to say, for the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, and "their kind" obviously did not keep all of the commandments of the Father. There is only ONE who never transgressed any commandment of the Father. Here it is again, and if you do not abide by what it strictly says you end up in the ditch:

Luke 15:25-31 ASV
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called to him one of the servants, and inquired what these things might be.
27 ​And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him.
29 But he answered and said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, and I never transgressed a commandment of thine; and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 but when this thy son came, who hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou killedst for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that is mine is thine.


Again:

1) There is only ONE who never broke or transgressed any commandment of the Father.

The Master makes it very plain throughout the Gospel accounts that it surely is not the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people of which or whom he speaks because he calls them out continually with words like "hypocrite" and so on.

2) There is only ONE of whom it is ever said the all things of the Father are likewise his.

This again cannot be the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people: have you never read about what happened in 70AD? Surely you have! It is rather the Son of whom it is said that all things of the Father are also his, (Luk15:31, Jhn16:15).

John 16:15 ASV
15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.


You cannot proceed any further into the depth of these things if you refuse to force yourself to comply with these two very simple facts, (which is why I laid them out the way I did), for otherwise you too are simply making up your own meaning for the parable to suit what you wish to believe but which does not agree with the scripture. According to your understanding the Father gave all that is His to the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders of the people, because they kept all of His commandments and never transgressed any one of them, (lol).

It appears you need to get some new and improved study principles.
chuckle.gif


The Scribes and Pharisees were the ones Jesus condemned and who put him to death.
Matt. 23:23
Matt. 15:1
Matt. 23:27
Matt. 23:13
Matt. 23:15
Matt. 23:2
Matt. 12:38
Matt. 23:25
Luke 5:30
Matt. 23:29
Luke 15:2
Matt. 5:20
Acts 23:9
Mark 2:16
Mark 7:5
Luke 6:7
Luke 5:21
Mark 7:1
Luke 11:53
As most people can tell by reviewing these scriptures, the Scribes and Pharisees were the bad guys! Yet, you have no clue! You have me at a disadvantage. I thought I was conversing with someone who knew at least a little bit about the subject under discussion.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

I already just made that point: how is it that you can neither see nor understand that fact? Take your own advice and move along: there is nothing more for you to see here, (lol), you are now just creating chaos and buffoonery. But thanks for confirming what I have said even though you do not realize that is what you have done. :)
 

dcon

BANNED
Banned
I already just made that point: how is it that you can neither see nor understand that fact? Take your own advice and move along: there is nothing more for you to see here, (lol), you are now just creating chaos and buffoonery. But thanks for confirming what I have said even though you do not realize that is what you have done. :)
I'm simply exposing you for what you are. A person who professes to be a Christian, but definitely gets angry when you can't control the conversation. I sincerely hope you don't have a wife and kids. If you do, my condolences to them.

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daqq

Well-known member
I'm simply exposing you for what you are. A person who professes to be a Christian, but definitely gets angry when you can't control the conversation. I sincerely hope you don't have a wife and kids. If you do, my condolences to them.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

Lol, the more you post the more you only expose yourself: and the fact that you now want to make it personal exposes the inner corruption of your own defiled heart. Moreover the Father confirms the word of His servants, not because they deserve it, but because His servants believe and live by His Word which is His Son. You went off to go serve yourself, and gathered up a stack of scripture quotes, so as to come back here with your quotes and really stick it to me good: but the Master the Word turned it against you to my favor, (because what I spoke is the Truth from the scripture, not because of me), and thus you ended up working for the Father and His Word, who is the Truth, instead of working for yourself and your own evil means and ends. And because I spoke the Truth in what I said: you ended up doing a whole bunch more work for me, and only brought back more confirmation of what I had already said, which was the Truth. :rotfl:

O taste and see, O man, that Yah is Chrestos! :)
 

bling

Member
The Parable of the Prodigal Son

Should it be the parable of the prodigal father?

Did the son ever actually repent and show remorse for what he did? Or did he return only because he would be 'better off' than in his current predicament?

TIA
You make an excellent observation of the parable. The son is not returning home to please the father (he might expect the father will through him out of the house, which would be very reasonable). This young son has wimped out, given up and surrendering. If he was really Macho he would pay the piper and take the punishment he fully earned and deserves to his death. Why cause further pain for the Father and brother by his presence?

The son is going to the father for purely selfish reasons (he want just some kind of livable life, yet the father showers him with gifts for just being willing to "accept" his father's charity?

This is the way we are prior to just accepting God's charity as pure sacrificial charity and all we have to do is wimp out, give up and surrender even if we still "hate" God at the time, if we are just willing to accept His charity.
 

dcon

BANNED
Banned
Lol, the more you post the more you only expose yourself: and the fact that you now want to make it personal exposes the inner corruption of your own defiled heart. Moreover the Father confirms the word of His servants, not because they deserve it, but because His servants believe and live by His Word which is His Son. You went off to go serve yourself, and gathered up a stack of scripture quotes, so as to come back here with your quotes and really stick it to me good: but the Master the Word turned it against you to my favor, (because what I spoke is the Truth from the scripture, not because of me), and thus you ended up working for the Father and His Word, who is the Truth, instead of working for yourself and your own evil means and ends. And because I spoke the Truth in what I said: you ended up doing a whole bunch more work for me, and only brought back more confirmation of what I had already said, which was the Truth. :rotfl:

O taste and see, O man, that Yah is Chrestos! :)
And because I spoke the Truth in what I said: you ended up doing a whole bunch more work for me

Great! Send me your address, and I'll send you a bill for my services.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
 

daqq

Well-known member
And because I spoke the Truth in what I said: you ended up doing a whole bunch more work for me

Great! Send me your address, and I'll send you a bill for my services.

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

:chuckle: Olam Haba has no address . . .
And besides, there is a great gulf fixed between us.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Great! Send me your address, and I'll send you a bill for my services.

Too blind to see when you are trapped in your own cage of your own making? Not only do you confess that you were indeed working for yourself in doing what you did, (a perversion of the usage of the Word), but you also confess your desire for mammon in seeking to send me a bill for your services, (lol).

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by dcon
I have. It's you who seems to be lingering like some kind of pervert.
No, you are not being honest with yourself, you have not moved on because here you are lingering and continuing to post even though it was you who said there is nothing to see here. And even worse, I was still speaking in terms of the parable and its meaning; and for that you accuse me of lingering and being "like some kind of pervert." All you have done is reveal that you are a hypocrite and false accuser with three fingers pointing back at yourself. And what is on those three fingers pointing back at you? Mormon? JW? Mammon lover? Pervert? and how many of those can I be wrong about? :chuckle:

All one needs to do now is mention the NWT and you will confess the third. :rotfl:
 

dcon

BANNED
Banned
Too blind to see when you are trapped in your own cage of your own making? Not only do you confess that you were indeed working for yourself in doing what you did, (a perversion of the usage of the Word), but you also confess your desire for mammon in seeking to send me a bill for your services, (lol).



All one needs to do now is mention the NWT and you will confess the third. :rotfl:
????

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk
 

Danoh

New member
You are reading into the text what you will it to say: it does not say what you will it to say, for the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, and "their kind" obviously did not keep all of the commandments of the Father. There is only ONE who never transgressed any commandment of the Father. Here it is again, and if you do not abide by what it strictly says you end up in the ditch:

Luke 15:25-31 ASV
25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing.
26 And he called to him one of the servants, and inquired what these things might be.
27 ​And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28 But he was angry, and would not go in: and his father came out, and entreated him.
29 But he answered and said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, and I never transgressed a commandment of thine; and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30 but when this thy son came, who hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou killedst for him the fatted calf.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that is mine is thine.


Again:

1) There is only ONE who never broke or transgressed any commandment of the Father.

The Master makes it very plain throughout the Gospel accounts that it surely is not the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people of which or whom he speaks because he calls them out continually with words like "hypocrite" and so on.

2) There is only ONE of whom it is ever said the all things of the Father are likewise his.

This again cannot be the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, Scribes, or rulers of the people: have you never read about what happened in 70AD? Surely you have! It is rather the Son of whom it is said that all things of the Father are also his, (Luk15:31, Jhn16:15).

John 16:15 ASV
15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.


You cannot proceed any further into the depth of these things if you refuse to force yourself to comply with these two very simple facts, (which is why I laid them out the way I did), for otherwise you too are simply making up your own meaning for the parable to suit what you wish to believe but which does not agree with the scripture. According to your understanding the Father gave all that is His to the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders of the people, because they kept all of His commandments and never transgressed any one of them, (lol).

It appears you need to get some new and improved study principles. :chuckle:

Nope.

I merely followed His thought throughout all those chapters.

What you did was break from the flow of His thought into your own "oh, this here means this waaaaaaay over here..."

Nope.

Not in this case it doesn't.

His parable had been in light of and to the following...

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

They drew near unto Him.

Who was He?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Who was His Word sent unto? The very next verse in....

Isaiah 9:8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

Returning back to this and said Father...

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Verse one is the returning, repentent Younger son.

Verse two is the Elder son looking in his hypocrisy looking down his nose at the younger son.

Which prompted the following IN LIGHT OF THAT...

Luke 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

EXACTLY the very thought He began all that IN...


Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Compare the very next verse with the last one...

15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

The study approach principle I went by on this.

Which is the principle of "FIRST; seek to identify the flow or recurrent pattern of thought throughout, that you might, THEN; allow it to inform you as to what's what throughout."

Which is basically this principle illustrated here...

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

All He basically did there was lay out the recurrent pattern or flow of thought of all those passages as to those "things concerning himself."

All I did was make that a conscious study principle.

That, and this, etc...

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Why?

That I might consciously apply it.

For, absent of CONSCIOUS study principles, one can often easily end up at the false-positive that often is the "well, what this here means to me is..."

Intent and or result of said CONSCIOUS approach?

On the one hand, toward this CONSCIENCE practice...

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

On the other, toward this intended CONSCIOUS result...

Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

So, nope, not only was my study approach not off, but I was VERY CONSCIOUS of it throughout - DELIBERATELY.

Why?

As instructed to be - by the Scripture...

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Ya can't very well do that if you are unaware of when you are off and when you are not; now can you?

In memory of Romans 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Nope.

I merely followed His thought throughout all those chapters.

What you did was break from the flow of His thought into your own "oh, this here means this waaaaaaay over here..."

Nope.

Not in this case it doesn't.

His parable had been in light of and to the following...

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

They drew near unto Him.
Spoiler
Who was He?

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Who was His Word sent unto? The very next verse in....

Isaiah 9:8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

Returning back to this and said Father...

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Verse one is the returning, repentent Younger son.

Verse two is the Elder son looking in his hypocrisy looking down his nose at the younger son.

Which prompted the following IN LIGHT OF THAT...

Luke 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? 15:9 And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.

15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

EXACTLY the very thought He began all that IN...


Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Compare the very next verse with the last one...

15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

The study approach principle I went by on this.

Which is the principle of "FIRST; seek to identify the flow or recurrent pattern of thought throughout, that you might, THEN; allow it to inform you as to what's what throughout."

Which is basically this principle illustrated here...

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

All He basically did there was lay out the recurrent pattern or flow of thought of all those passages as to those "things concerning himself."

All I did was make that a conscious study principle.

That, and this, etc...

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Why?

That I might consciously apply it.

For, absent of CONSCIOUS study principles, one can often easily end up at the false-positive that often is the "well, what this here means to me is..."

Intent and or result of said CONSCIOUS approach?

On the one hand, toward this CONSCIENCE practice...

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

On the other, toward this intended CONSCIOUS result...

Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

So, nope, not only was my study approach not off, but I was VERY CONSCIOUS of it throughout - DELIBERATELY.

Why?

As instructed to be - by the Scripture...

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Ya can't very well do that if you are unaware of when you are off and when you are not; now can you?

In memory of Romans 5: 6-8 - in each our stead.
The very simple fact remains no matter how much obfuscation you put forward:

According to your understanding the Father gave all that is His to the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders of the people, because they kept all of His commandments and never transgressed any one of them, (lol).

What did Joseph say to his brothers that made them want to slay him?

Paraphrased, "I've had a dream: you are all going to bow to me." :chuckle:

It seems to me that the reason most cannot or will not see the prodigal son as the Pharisees, Scribes, Jews, etc., is for the simple fact that the prodigal son returns home: but remember that this is only after wasting his inheritance from the Father, just as "the Pharisees Inc." were doing, acting pious, but in spiritual terms living riotously and fornicating with false doctrines and precepts of men. Most people want to believe that the prodigal son is themselves simply for the fact that they themselves have come to believe, (and that part is true), however, for some reason, hardly anyone is ever willing to believe that they are a Pharisee, (lol). But when I myself finally realized that I was a Pharisee, (in the bad sense of the word), that is when I actually began to see it for what it is, and indeed, Meshiah ben Yoseph told them, just as Yoseph said to his brethren, that when they finally did come home they too would bow to him: otherwise their house would be left to themselves, (empty, just as the Master also says of Jerusalem, Mat23:38, Luk13:35). And indeed, they all drew near, the Pharisees and Scribes, and including the publicans and sinners: and I believe they all knew what he meant, and especially the Pharisees and Scribes, and they eventually ended up reacting the same way as the "eleven stars" reacted to Joseph when he told his brethren the same.

The Master is not calling the Pharisees and Scribes the elder son but rather calling them the prodigal son, (just the same as the publicans and sinners), who went and joined himself to a pig farmer: which is probably about the worst possible insult to a Pharisee. :chuckle:
 
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Danoh

New member
The very simple fact remains no matter how much obfuscation you put forward:

According to your understanding the Father gave all that is His to the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders of the people, because they kept all of His commandments and never transgressed any one of them, (lol).

You poor thing - the obvious went right past you, once more: given an obvious hole in your approach.

:chuckle:

It is obvious in the parable that the Elder Son had merely deceived himself into believing he had been the ever dutiful son.

His attitude towards his younger brother, as with the very attitude of Israel's Elders towards those of their brethren who had returned unto the Father (LORD God of Israel); the very attitude that had prompted those parables, had also been anything but "kosher."

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

Or as He had also noted about such...

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Still, as always, thanks for the Proverbs 27: 17 challenge once more, old friend.

Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you, daqq.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You poor thing - the obvious went right past you, given an obvious hole in your approach.

:chuckle:

It is obvious in the parable that the Elder Son had merely deceived himself into believing he had been the ever dutiful son.

His attitude towards his younger brother, as with the very attitude of Israel's Elders towards those of their brethren who had returned unto the Father (LORD God of Israel); the very attitude that had prompted those parables, had also been anything but "kosher."

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

Or as He had also noted about such...

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Still, as always, thanks for the Proverbs 27: 17 challenge once more, old friend.

Rom. 5: 6-8 towards you, daqq.

Nope, that is your opinion, just as was said already how you are inserting your own understanding into the text. It matters not how many scripture passages you can go dig up to try to change the plain statements of the Master in his parable. The text says nothing about the Elder Son having "deceived himself", and rather says that he never broke or transgressed any commandment of his Father, and that the Father says to him, "Son, you are ever with Me, and all things of Mine are thine." Moreover you have ignored the implications of the (Torah) sacrifices that are mentioned, (which have also been explained herein). Kiss the Son, lest he be a little heated and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Give up the billy-goat nature, O man, surely you have a kid-goat twin you can spare for your Elder brother? so as to make Peace with him? And if not I suppose he will continue to refuse to enter into your house. :chuckle:
 

marhig

Well-known member
The Parable of the Prodigal Son

Should it be the parable of the prodigal father?

Did the son ever actually repent and show remorse for what he did? Or did he return only because he would be 'better off' than in his current predicament?

TIA
He certainly repented, sometimes we have to go through suffering to realise how blessed we are to have God, and if we choose this world before God he will let us go and we can go through a lot of suffering for doing wrong, but i believe that he will hope that we will return. Although God won't be mocked.

The younger brother wasting his inheritance is like enjoying the pleasures of the world, the swine are a picture of those in the world who love wallowing in the dirt and taking in anything fed to them. When the son had suffered, he admitted he had sinned and that he wasn't worthy to be called a son and would be happy as a servant. That's the heart that we should have, be happy to be an unprofitable servant to do the will of God, and those who are humble, God will lift us up and cover us and feed us and never leave us and take care of us.

Jesus said that if one sinner repents that the angels in heaven rejoice. So I'm sure God loves to see our hearts turning back to him. Although he won't be fooled, true repentance is not to go back and do what we did before but turn and obey our father and live by his will.
 

Danoh

New member
Nope, that is your opinion, just as was said already how you are inserting your own understanding into the text. It matters not how many scripture passages you can go dig up to try to change the plain statements of the Master in his parable. The text says nothing about the Elder Son having "deceived himself", and rather says that he never broke or transgressed any commandment of his Father, and that the Father says to him, "Son, you are ever with Me, and all things of Mine are thine." Moreover you have ignored the implications of the (Torah) sacrifices that are mentioned, (which have also been explained herein). Kiss the Son, lest he be a little heated and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Give up the billy-goat nature, O man, surely you have a kid-goat twin you can spare for your Elder brother? so as to make Peace with him? And if not I suppose he will continue to refuse to enter into your house. :chuckle:

Nope.

The Elder son's attitude upon his Younger brother's return had been no different than the following...

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Though he'd not left the other undone, it is obvious he did leave the former...undone - for he showed no mercy and faith with regard to his younger brother's return in remorse.

You have confused their father's mercy and faith as that Elder son's.

Well, I've said my piece for now; feel free to have the last word, old friend.

Til our next go round; I always do enjoy them. :)

Rom. 5: 6-8.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Nope.

The Elder son's attitude upon his Younger brother's return had been no different than the following...

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Though he'd not left the other undone, it is obvious he did leave the former...undone - for he showed no mercy and faith with regard to his younger brother's return in remorse.

You have confused their father's mercy and faith as that Elder son's.

Well, I've said my piece for now; feel free to have the last word, old friend.

Til our next go round; I always do enjoy them. :)

Rom. 5: 6-8.

I appreciate it, old friend, but I do think my last word was enough already.

And Rom 5:6-8 toward you and yours too. :)
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
This parable is an easy one.

Israel went astray, but is being returned to the fold, and Judah is rather indignant about it.
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
Parables make only one point.
Find God in the parable.
The point is always from His point of view.

So, the father is the Father.
From the Father's point of view, he is happy when a sinner repents and comes to a relationship with Him.

That is it. To think the Father prodigal so God should not give man free will, the older brother shows law keepers are losers ...blah...blah....blah... I could make a torrent of illegal side points to the parable.

So I am afraid that what we are left with is exactly what most believe is the point behind the parable, which is that God loves sinners who repent and return to Him, and is never offended by their past.
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
Side point #2:

The lost son was a member of the family before he went to sin city...and then returned upon his repentance.

The lost sheep - when did they join His flock so they could RETURN to their Bishop and saviour, 1 Peter 2:25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

The prodigal son returned to his Father but how did these lost sheep return if they were never in his flock but were instead created as evil abominations in Adam's sin??? Some serious theological issue here, eh? Ahhh no, theology defines the scripture, the scripture does not define our theology, mmmmm?
 
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