The Origin of the Myth that the Chuch is 'Spiritual Israel'

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
When some of the early church leaders saw Jerusalem destroyed in the second Jewish revolt (A.D. 132-135) and the Jews excluded from Jerusalem upon penalty of death, they reasoned that the nation of Israel was apparently beyond any hope of recovery. Tertullian wrote:

"The Jews are scattered wanderers, excluded from their own land of Judea; this shows how they erred and forsook their calling, and how Judaism has been, therefore, superceded by Christianity"
(The Apology).​

These Gentile converts saw the condition of Israel, destroyed and seemingly beyond any hope of recovery, and reasoned that they would never be restored, in spite of the clear Revelation from God that ethnic Israel has not been cast away. Tertullian was not alone in this belief, as witnessed by the words of Justin Martyr in his conversation with the Jew Trypho:

"For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even at the present time. And hence you ought to understand that [the gifts] formerly among your nation have been transferred to us"
(Dialogue of Justin with Trypho, a Jew, Chapter 82).​

These men ASSUMED that God had cast away Israel. Their false belief was not based on the Scriptures but instead on what they saw and reasoned had happened.

Noted church historian W.H.C. Frend observes that with this second fall of Jerusalem, "all hope of a restored Temple and Holy City now faded, and the Jews were thrown on to the defensive. The reference of the prophecies to an earthly restoration of the Jewish kingdom and Messiah in the form of a deliverer from Rome rule had to be abandoned" (Frend, "The Old Testament in the Age of the Greek Apologists A.D.130-180," Scottish Journal of Theology, 26).

Because the early Gentile Christians did not believe that national Israel would be restored they were left with a problem. How could they explain the following verses:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east...Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev.7:2-4).​

According to their ideas the reference to "Israel" here could not be speaking of a restored nation of Israel so they reasoned that these verses must be in respect to the Church, which is His Body. They assumed that God had forever cast away national Israel, and the church had taken her place. Cyprian stated his belief that "the Jews, according to what had been foretold, had departed from God, and had lost God's favor while the Christians succeeded to their place" (Cyprian, Treatise 12-Three Books of Testimony Against the Jews).

So we can see that some of the people in the early church put what they saw with their eyes ABOVE what the Scriptures actually say. That explains how the false teaching that the Church is "spiritual Israel" came into existence.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
When some of the early church leaders saw Jerusalem destroyed in the second Jewish revolt (A.D. 132-135) and the Jews excluded from Jerusalem upon penalty of death, they reasoned that the nation of Israel was apparently beyond any hope of recovery. Tertullian wrote:

"The Jews are scattered wanderers, excluded from their own land of Judea; this shows how they erred and forsook their calling, and how Judaism has been, therefore, superceded by Christianity"
(The Apology).​

These Gentile converts saw the condition of Israel, destroyed and seemingly beyond any hope of recovery, and reasoned that they would never be restored, in spite of the clear Revelation from God that ethnic Israel has not been cast away. Tertullian was not alone in this belief, as witnessed by the words of Justin Martyr in his conversation with the Jew Trypho:

"For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even at the present time. And hence you ought to understand that [the gifts] formerly among your nation have been transferred to us"
(Dialogue of Justin with Trypho, a Jew, Chapter 82).​

These men ASSUMED that God had cast away Israel. Their false belief was not based on the Scriptures but instead on what they saw and reasoned had happened.

Noted church historian W.H.C. Frend observes that with this second fall of Jerusalem, "all hope of a restored Temple and Holy City now faded, and the Jews were thrown on to the defensive. The reference of the prophecies to an earthly restoration of the Jewish kingdom and Messiah in the form of a deliverer from Rome rule had to be abandoned" (Frend, "The Old Testament in the Age of the Greek Apologists A.D.130-180," Scottish Journal of Theology, 26).

Because the early Gentile Christians did not believe that national Israel would be restored they were left with a problem. How could they explain the following verses:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east...Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev.7:2-4).​

According to their ideas the reference to "Israel" here could not be speaking of a restored nation of Israel so they reasoned that these verses must be in respect to the Church, which is His Body. They assumed that God had forever cast away national Israel, and the church had taken her place. Cyprian stated his belief that "the Jews, according to what had been foretold, had departed from God, and had lost God's favor while the Christians succeeded to their place" (Cyprian, Treatise 12-Three Books of Testimony Against the Jews).

So we can see that some of the people in the early church put what they saw with their eyes ABOVE what the Scriptures actually say. That explains how the false teaching that the Church is "spiritual Israel" came into existence.

Now that's some "sharper iron"

: )
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
When some of the early church leaders saw Jerusalem destroyed in the second Jewish revolt (A.D. 132-135) and the Jews excluded from Jerusalem upon penalty of death, they reasoned that the nation of Israel was apparently beyond any hope of recovery. Tertullian wrote:

"The Jews are scattered wanderers, excluded from their own land of Judea; this shows how they erred and forsook their calling, and how Judaism has been, therefore, superceded by Christianity"
(The Apology).​

These Gentile converts saw the condition of Israel, destroyed and seemingly beyond any hope of recovery, and reasoned that they would never be restored, in spite of the clear Revelation from God that ethnic Israel has not been cast away. Tertullian was not alone in this belief, as witnessed by the words of Justin Martyr in his conversation with the Jew Trypho:

"For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even at the present time. And hence you ought to understand that [the gifts] formerly among your nation have been transferred to us"
(Dialogue of Justin with Trypho, a Jew, Chapter 82).​

These men ASSUMED that God had cast away Israel. Their false belief was not based on the Scriptures but instead on what they saw and reasoned had happened.

Noted church historian W.H.C. Frend observes that with this second fall of Jerusalem, "all hope of a restored Temple and Holy City now faded, and the Jews were thrown on to the defensive. The reference of the prophecies to an earthly restoration of the Jewish kingdom and Messiah in the form of a deliverer from Rome rule had to be abandoned" (Frend, "The Old Testament in the Age of the Greek Apologists A.D.130-180," Scottish Journal of Theology, 26).

Because the early Gentile Christians did not believe that national Israel would be restored they were left with a problem. How could they explain the following verses:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east...Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev.7:2-4).​

According to their ideas the reference to "Israel" here could not be speaking of a restored nation of Israel so they reasoned that these verses must be in respect to the Church, which is His Body. They assumed that God had forever cast away national Israel, and the church had taken her place. Cyprian stated his belief that "the Jews, according to what had been foretold, had departed from God, and had lost God's favor while the Christians succeeded to their place" (Cyprian, Treatise 12-Three Books of Testimony Against the Jews).

So we can see that some of the people in the early church put what they saw with their eyes ABOVE what the Scriptures actually say. That explains how the false teaching that the Church is "spiritual Israel" came into existence.

Deuteronomy 31:6

pillar-of-cloud.jpg
 
The origin of the Church being "spiritual Israel" started even earlier than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 132-135). Paul addressed this very issue in Romans Chapter 11 by explaining that the Gentiles have been grafted into the family of God. If anyone knows about grafting, it is easy to see that the Church, though one alienated, has become part of Israel: it does not replace Israel, it does not supersede Israel, nor is it separate from Israel. They are to be in one spirit and one faith rooted in one Savior, Jesus the Messiah.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The origin of the Church being "spiritual Israel" started even earlier than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 132-135). Paul addressed this very issue in Romans Chapter 11 by explaining that the Gentiles have been grafted into the family of God.

The Olive Tree is not a symbol of the family of God. In the Olive Tree analogy Paul speaks of those being "cut off" of that tree (Ro.11:22) and no one gets cut off from the family of God. The Lord Jesus said:

"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
(Jn.6:36-37).​
 

Epoisses

New member
Was Jacob which means 'deceiver' born with the name 'Israel' or was it given to him as a gift later in life?

You want to talk about Israel we might as well start at the beginning.
 

Epoisses

New member
The origin of the Church being "spiritual Israel" started even earlier than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 132-135). Paul addressed this very issue in Romans Chapter 11 by explaining that the Gentiles have been grafted into the family of God. If anyone knows about grafting, it is easy to see that the Church, though one alienated, has become part of Israel: it does not replace Israel, it does not supersede Israel, nor is it separate from Israel. They are to be in one spirit and one faith rooted in one Savior, Jesus the Messiah.

The olive tree is the Abrahamic covenant which Israel could have been broken off of and the Gentiles could have been grafted into. If the olive tree is Israel how could Israel be grafted back into Israel? The tree supports the branches if you follow the analogy.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Was Jacob which means 'deceiver' born with the name 'Israel' or was it given to him as a gift later in life?

You want to talk about Israel we might as well start at the beginning.

The Hebrew word translated "Jacob" means "heel-catcher, supplanter."

"And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them"
(Gen.25:6).​

The Hebrew word translated "Israel" means "soldier of God":

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed"
(Gen.32:28).​

We read this:

"Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father...Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be" (Gen.49:2,9-10).​
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
The origin of the Church being "spiritual Israel" started even earlier than the destruction of Jerusalem (AD 132-135). Paul addressed this very issue in Romans Chapter 11 by explaining that the Gentiles have been grafted into the family of God. If anyone knows about grafting, it is easy to see that the Church, though one alienated, has become part of Israel: it does not replace Israel, it does not supersede Israel, nor is it separate from Israel. They are to be in one spirit and one faith rooted in one Savior, Jesus the Messiah.

The timing of the ONENESS of it all is the issue...

Rm. 11:25-36 is ignored and Israel is pushed aside via Replacement Theology.

It's safest to just call one the "BOC" which will encompass ALL, but the 7 Shofar haven't blown yet so "Israel" and her "Jews" are on the mend while the "BOC" is the "age of the Gentiles"... thus Rm. 11:25, 28-29; Luke 21:20-24, 21, 24
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
The olive tree is the Abrahamic covenant which Israel could have been broken off of and the Gentiles could have been grafted into. If the olive tree is Israel how could Israel be grafted back into Israel? The tree supports the branches if you follow the analogy.

Nice try doofy...
image.jpg


It's "Wild Olive Tree" Rm. 11:17

Thus the Olive tree is the differentiated from the "Wild Olive Tree"

# God preemptively attacked your reppy garbage through Paul.
# GodSmacked
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
The Hebrew word translated "Jacob" means "heel-catcher, supplanter."

"And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them"
(Gen.25:6).​

The Hebrew word translated "Israel" means "soldier of God":

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed"
(Gen.32:28).​

We read this:

"Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father...Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be" (Gen.49:2,9-10).​

The Olive Tree is not a symbol of the family of God. In the Olive Tree analogy Paul speaks of those being "cut off" of that tree (Ro.11:22) and no one gets cut off from the family of God. The Lord Jesus said:

"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
(Jn.6:36-37).​

If the BOC can't even believe that GOD will keep His oath to Israel, they have no basis to believe GOD will keep His oath to them.

When some of the early church leaders saw Jerusalem destroyed in the second Jewish revolt (A.D. 132-135) and the Jews excluded from Jerusalem upon penalty of death, they reasoned that the nation of Israel was apparently beyond any hope of recovery. Tertullian wrote:

"The Jews are scattered wanderers, excluded from their own land of Judea; this shows how they erred and forsook their calling, and how Judaism has been, therefore, superceded by Christianity"
(The Apology).​

These Gentile converts saw the condition of Israel, destroyed and seemingly beyond any hope of recovery, and reasoned that they would never be restored, in spite of the clear Revelation from God that ethnic Israel has not been cast away. Tertullian was not alone in this belief, as witnessed by the words of Justin Martyr in his conversation with the Jew Trypho:

"For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even at the present time. And hence you ought to understand that [the gifts] formerly among your nation have been transferred to us"
(Dialogue of Justin with Trypho, a Jew, Chapter 82).​

These men ASSUMED that God had cast away Israel. Their false belief was not based on the Scriptures but instead on what they saw and reasoned had happened.

Noted church historian W.H.C. Frend observes that with this second fall of Jerusalem, "all hope of a restored Temple and Holy City now faded, and the Jews were thrown on to the defensive. The reference of the prophecies to an earthly restoration of the Jewish kingdom and Messiah in the form of a deliverer from Rome rule had to be abandoned" (Frend, "The Old Testament in the Age of the Greek Apologists A.D.130-180," Scottish Journal of Theology, 26).

Because the early Gentile Christians did not believe that national Israel would be restored they were left with a problem. How could they explain the following verses:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east...Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev.7:2-4).​

According to their ideas the reference to "Israel" here could not be speaking of a restored nation of Israel so they reasoned that these verses must be in respect to the Church, which is His Body. They assumed that God had forever cast away national Israel, and the church had taken her place. Cyprian stated his belief that "the Jews, according to what had been foretold, had departed from God, and had lost God's favor while the Christians succeeded to their place" (Cyprian, Treatise 12-Three Books of Testimony Against the Jews).

So we can see that some of the people in the early church put what they saw with their eyes ABOVE what the Scriptures actually say. That explains how the false teaching that the Church is "spiritual Israel" came into existence.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
It's safest to just call one the BOC which will encompass ALL, but the 7 Shofar haven't blown yet so Israel is on the mend while the BOC is the "age of the Gentiles"... thus Rm. 11:25, 28-29; Luke 21:20-24, 21, 24

However, Paul claimed that there are no Jewish or Gentile Christians.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
However, Paul claimed that there are no Jewish or Gentile Christians.

In the BOC... (Gentile, Christian Church of Jesus, through Paul) Galatians 2:7, 14, 15, 16

Israel is a different matter. Read through the posts from Tambora, Jerry, and Myself...

It's painfully clear!
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
In the BOC... (Gentile, Christian Church of Jesus, through Paul) Galatians 2:7, 14, 15, 16

Israel is a different matter. Read through the posts from Tambora, Jerry, and Myself...

Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. (Ephesians 2:19-22)​

There is only one dwelling place for God's Spirit.
 
The Olive Tree is not a symbol of the family of God. In the Olive Tree analogy Paul speaks of those being "cut off" of that tree (Ro.11:22) and no one gets cut off from the family of God. The Lord Jesus said:

"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out"
(Jn.6:36-37).​
Epoisses said:
The olive tree is the Abrahamic covenant which Israel could have been broken off of and the Gentiles could have been grafted into. If the olive tree is Israel how could Israel be grafted back into Israel? The tree supports the branches if you follow the analogy.

The problem with analogies is that people tend to ask questions and read into it far beyond that which the analogy is meant to address. The analogy was not meant to deal with salvation, nor was it meant to deal with the Abrahamic covenant. The analogy was meant to deal with the problem of the Jews (Israelites)and the Gentiles both arguing that one was better than the other. Replacement Theology was birthed by those who had either ignored Paul's analogy, forgotten it, or read more into it than what it's original purpose was. It is extremely dangerous to take analogies out of context or to try to use them for another purpose other than that which they were originally intended.

I blame myself because I used "family of God" where I actually meant to say grace of God. Paul was addressing the family of God with the analogy. I apologize for my mistake.
 

Epoisses

New member
The Hebrew word translated "Jacob" means "heel-catcher, supplanter."

"And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them"
(Gen.25:6).​

The Hebrew word translated "Israel" means "soldier of God":

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed"
(Gen.32:28).​

We read this:

"Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father...Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be" (Gen.49:2,9-10).​

The point being he wasn't born with the name Israel!!!

It was given to him as a gift after his night of trouble with the angel of the Lord.

You have to wrestle God to get the name of Israel.
 
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