beloved57
Well-known member
We will see at the Judgment !
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
We will see at the Judgment !
Epoisses
New member
You failed to prove anything just given your own private interpretation. The word 'Kosmos' is used 187 times in the NT and you have not shown one instance where it means the elect only in context.
beloved57
Well-known member
I have shown it plenty of times in other posts, however you have failed to prove world means everyone without exception in the salvation passages.
Yes, you will see that hyper-Calvinism was wrong, but we will stand together, brothers in Christ saved by grace through faith, not theological perfection.
beloved57
Well-known member
You are going to find out that man was saved by Grace through Faith and not by works.
Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; Rom. 4-5
I already know this core gospel truth. Your wrongly think that non-Calvinistic faith is a work (nope).
No it doesn't you demon possessed pervert! You have been shown this repeatedly over and over the last few days. You are not stupid, you reject it.
Salvation is a gift, and it is offered to all men. Paul explicitly states this, as well as that he died for all sin. Even Peter says he died once to all sin. You still have to accept the gift, and clearly you do not.
beloved57
Well-known member
I am in agreement with Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Rom 4:5.
None of those scriptures teach Salvation by works, but you do.
You believe Christ died for all men without exception, but yet you know all men without exception shall not be saved, so something else must be done for a person to be saved besides Chris's Death for them according to you, am i correct ? If so, what is that something else which must be done, and done by who ?
Your logic does not compute. Your view could lead to universalism. It creates the loop hole that all are not saved because of supposed limited atonement. This limits the love of God and makes His decrees arbitrary. The reality is that we are in the image of God and can receive or reject His perfect provision intended for all, but only appropriated by some. Man, not God, should get the blame for why some are lost in light of His perfect provision.
ALL ALLMOST NEVER MEANS ALL (IN THE CARNAL SENSE)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)
XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.
Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
(NKJ)
John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)
John 13:1
1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
(NKJ)
1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
(NKJ)
Acts 2:39
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
(NKJ)
Matt 5:14-16
14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 6:33-34
33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
John 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish-- the very works that I do-- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
John 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 18:11
11 Then Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?"
Heb 2:13
13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."
John 6:44-48
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
47 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
48 "I am the bread of life.
John 6:65-69
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.
67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, "Do you also want to go away?"
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69 "Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
John 17:1-2
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 17:6-7
6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
John 17:10-12
10 "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)
XXX All is a figure of speech. We can see that to Jesus all was all those that God had given Him. Which is all those who become Christians and are born again. All those that follow Jesus' example.
Mark 10:45
45 "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
(NKJ)
John 17:12
12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
(NKJ)
John 13:1
1 Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
(NKJ)
1Thes 3:11-13
11 Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
(NKJ)
Acts 2:39
39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."
(NKJ)
beloved57
Well-known member
He came to save a specific people !
He came to save a specific people !
He came to save a specific people, not all mankind without exception. He came to save a Chosen People, and this is clearly true in the fact that He came through the People of Israel, the Seed of Abraham through the flesh Heb 2:16. For He was promised to come through the Seed of Abraham, whom Eve and Adam represented here Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The woman here is Eve who he had deceived, and her seed was hers through her union with Adam, So Adam's Seed is here spoken of as the woman's seed Eve.
Christ according to the flesh came through Adam's Seed Lk 3:23-38.
He came specifically to save or give aid to the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
16 For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].
Now is all mankind the Seed of Abraham or even the fallen descendants of Abraham ? The Answer is NO !
He came to save a specific people !
He came to save a specific people, not all mankind without exception. He came to save a Chosen People, and this is clearly true in the fact that He came through the People of Israel, the Seed of Abraham through the flesh Heb 2:16. For He was promised to come through the Seed of Abraham, whom Eve and Adam represented here Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
The woman here is Eve who he had deceived, and her seed was hers through her union with Adam, So Adam's Seed is here spoken of as the woman's seed Eve.
Christ according to the flesh came through Adam's Seed Lk 3:23-38.
He came specifically to save or give aid to the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
16 For, as we all know, He [Christ] did not take hold of angels [the fallen angels, to give them a helping and delivering hand], but He did take hold of [the fallen] descendants of Abraham [to reach out to them a helping and delivering hand].
Now is all mankind the Seed of Abraham or even the fallen descendants of Abraham ? The Answer is NO !
beloved57
Well-known member
He came to save a specific people , The Seed !
He came to save a specific people , The Seed !
Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
His soul was made an offering for sin for the seed He shall see !
A Seed/generation shall serve Him Ps 22:30
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
1 Pet 2:9
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
That Christ came only to save a Chosen People, His Seed or Generation, is seen in the fact that He came through the People of Israel according to the flesh Rom 9:5
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
As He was promised to come through Eve Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman[Eve], and between thy seed and her[Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
And Eve at this time was the Mother of all the Living, Adam said Gen 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
And God is the God of the Living, not the dead Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Eve is the Mother of all the Living Elect !
Now, That Christ was the Seed of the Woman Eve is seen here Rev 12:5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Thats Christ, the Promised Seed of the Woman Eve Gen 3:15
So if Christ is according to the flesh the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Then Eve in the beginning was the beginning of the Seed of Abraham, She was the Mother of all Living, which is the Elect Line of Abraham's Seed Matt 22:32
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
He came to die and save only that Seed of Abraham, and all whom belong to Him are the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
He came to save a specific people , The Seed !
Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
His soul was made an offering for sin for the seed He shall see !
A Seed/generation shall serve Him Ps 22:30
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
1 Pet 2:9
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
That Christ came only to save a Chosen People, His Seed or Generation, is seen in the fact that He came through the People of Israel according to the flesh Rom 9:5
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
As He was promised to come through Eve Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman[Eve], and between thy seed and her[Eve] seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
And Eve at this time was the Mother of all the Living, Adam said Gen 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
And God is the God of the Living, not the dead Matt 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Eve is the Mother of all the Living Elect !
Now, That Christ was the Seed of the Woman Eve is seen here Rev 12:5
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Thats Christ, the Promised Seed of the Woman Eve Gen 3:15
So if Christ is according to the flesh the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Then Eve in the beginning was the beginning of the Seed of Abraham, She was the Mother of all Living, which is the Elect Line of Abraham's Seed Matt 22:32
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
He came to die and save only that Seed of Abraham, and all whom belong to Him are the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)
beloved57
Well-known member
He does, of the seed of Abraham, and they shall be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth.
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I'm not sure if the Scripture says that, but if it did it wouldn't contradict Calvinistic predestination at all.
Matthew 22:14 teaches that there are people who are called (The gospel is offered to them) but nonetheless, they cannot accept it.
Jesus also says that he tells parables so that those who aren't the elect will not understand. The gospel was still preached to the non-elect, but they cannot believe it.
Saying that the gift of salvation is offered to all doesn't mean all are capable of accepting it.
This is about service/discipleship/mission, not personal salvation. God is willing to elect/choose all who come to Him in response to His non-coercive, non-causative influence.
Double predestination is indefensible biblically and logically. Even Calvin said it was odious, but believed it anyway to retain his flawed views.
beloved57
Well-known member
I have no problems with those scriptures, but you teach salvation by works, by what a man does !