The Most Dangerous Teaching

[meshak]

Believe whatever you desire, that's your right as a human being. Becoming a member of the "Body of Christ" is a "Spiritual matter" and only the Holy Spirit can help you and others with that.

If you don't cherish Jesus' word or teachings, you will not be spiritual.

You are right, only spirituals can have the HS.

Jesus' teachings are all about being spiritual.

So without following Him, you have no hope of being a spiritual and not eternal life.

My, I am doing so good.

 

[meshak]

Your "DISINGENUOUSNESS" is refreshing.

Sound like you are jealous because I can explain so well.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I laid out Peter's and Paul's sermon. They're the same. If they are not, please point it out to me.

If you will notice in the next chapter (14), Luke says Paul continued to preach the gospel. Is this not the gospel Paul was sent to preach? If not, when did it change?

I can try and convince you until I'm no longer a resident of "Planet Earth", however, that would be an "Exercise in Futility"." Either you're someday convinced by the Holy Spirit or it just won't happen.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sound like you jealous.

You just posted a thread, apologizing for your attacks on fellow Posters and already you're back to your same old tactics? Was that thread just written to get you more attention?

 

[meshak]

You just posted a thread, apologizing for your attacks on fellow Posters and already you're back to your same old tactics? Was that thread just written to get you more attention?

Humor is loving thing to do

I am just being playful because you guys keep avoiding Jesus' word and my point.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I have one more thing to say about Meshak, then, I'll let others see how she is. "Meshak is a "Drama Queen" who craves attention, because, she cannot "demand attention."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Shouldn't those writing and Acts be in agreement?

I have nothing more to add.

 

[meshak]

I have one more thing to say about Meshak, then, I'll let others see how she is. "Meshak is a "Drama Queen" who craves attention, because, she cannot "demand attention."

Another meshak this?

I think my posts are more humorous than yours.

Remember Jesus is the Lord, not meshak.

 

[turbosixx]

I have nothing more to add.

Thanks for your time

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Thanks for your time

Yep.

 

[Right Divider]

You say it's not then what is it? How did those on Pentecost have their sins forgiven??

Of course, God dealt with sin at the cross. God did NOT give all of the details at the cross.

It is a new law.
Heb. 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Gentiles never had a priesthood or the law. So what do you do with them?

Paul tells us when the two became one and it was before Paul.

And yet you will not tell us how to find this information.

Why are you always so vague?

 

[turbosixx]

Of course, God dealt with sin at the cross. God did NOT give all of the details at the cross.

Agreed.

Gentiles never had a priesthood or the law. So what do you do with them?

They do now.
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

The law was a shadow.

And yet you will not tell us how to find this information.

Why are you always so vague?

I'd rather you read it for yourself than me spell it out.

Now remember he's writing to Christians who have already been converted ON HIS TRAVELS.
Eph. 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Jesus purchased the church with his blood.

 

[Right Divider]

They do now.
Heb. 10:19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,

The law was a shadow.

Hebrews is not about gentiles.

The body of Christ has no priesthood. If we did Paul would have told us. But in none of his thirteen epistles does Paul even use the word 'priest' (nor 'priesthood').

Note that many years after the cross and after Pentecost, Paul said this:

Col 2:16-17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: (2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. ​

Note that these things are STILL a shadow of things to come, BUT the body is of Christ.

I'd rather you read it for yourself than me spell it out.

How can I read it if you won't show me where it is. Do I need to re-read the whole Bible and try to guess what you're talking about?

Now remember he's writing to Christians who have already been converted ON HIS TRAVELS.
Eph. 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Indeed, that is a great passage. It makes clear that we are made nigh by the blood of Christ. No covenant, no rituals, no ceremonies, no land, no priesthood, no works, ...

Jesus purchased the church with his blood.

Who said otherwise?

 

[turbosixx]

Hebrews is not about gentiles.

It's clear that Hebrews is written to Christians. So Christ is divided?

The body of Christ has no priesthood. If we did Paul would have told us. But in none of his thirteen epistles does Paul even use the word 'priest' (nor 'priesthood').

What do you believe Paul's point is by this comment?
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Right Divider]

It's clear that Hebrews is written to Christians. So Christ is divided?

Hebrews is written to.... wait for it.... HEBREWS.

Christ is not divided, but His dealings with people sometimes are.

Did God not separate Israel from the other nations?

Lev 20:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:24) But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] the LORD your God, which have separated you from [other] people. ​

If you are not dispensational, you make a mess of the Bible.

What do you believe Paul's point is by this comment?
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

That everyone can have faith.

What do you think that Paul meant here?

Gal 4:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:5) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. ​

 

[turbosixx]

Hebrews is written to.... wait for it.... HEBREWS.

Christ is not divided, but His dealings with people sometimes are.

You say Christ is not divided but that is exactly what your doing. Hebrews was written to Christians.
2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Did God not separate Israel from the other nations?
Lev 20:24

Yes he did, in the OT. He brought the Gentile in with the Jew at the cross.
Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

If you are not dispensational, you make a mess of the Bible.

I am a dispensationalist. I just don't draw the line where you do. Also, there is ZERO mess drawing the line at the cross. It doesn't make Jesus a false prophet. No need for excuses when verses contradict.

That everyone can have faith.

This doesn't make sense. Faith has been around since Abel. What does Paul mean by this statement?
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

What do you think that Paul meant here?

Gal 4:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:5) To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. ​

It's very simple if we look at the context of Romans. From the start he is dealing with Christians who want to incorporate the old law (circumcision) into Christ. That's why he says I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

That's why he says this:
3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

If the law brought righteousness then Jesus didn't need to die.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Then he tells them why the law was added.
19 Why the Law then? It was added [ac]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
The law showed them that they needed a savior but it could not save them.

When Christ came, they were no longer under the law.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

While they were under the law they were heirs but they were no different than a slave. They needed to be redeemed from the law to receive adoption as sons.
4:1 Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

In Christ there can be no Jew or Gentile. Former Jews cannot be under the law and IN Christ.
5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Right Divider]

You say Christ is not divided but that is exactly what your doing. Hebrews was written to Christians.
2:3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

So the believers of the nation of Israel cannot have a great salvation?

The book of Hebrews is ALL about Israel. If you cannot see that, there is little hope for you to actually understand what God is doing.

Even Peter speaks of their future salvation:

1Pet 1:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

​

Yes he did, in the OT. He brought the Gentile in with the Jew at the cross.
Eph. 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

BUT.... this information was NOT revealed AT the CROSS. Not only that, it does NOT invalidate ALL of the prophesy regarding Israel's kingdom on the earth.

I am a dispensationalist. I just don't draw the line where you do. Also, there is ZERO mess drawing the line at the cross. It doesn't make Jesus a false prophet. No need for excuses when verses contradict.

The cross is a line, but it's not the ONLY line. Once AGAIN, you cannot find Peter preaching the CROSS in Acts 1-8... you just can't.

YOUR division at Act 2 DOES make many contradictions. But you just cannot see it. You've got on the same blinders that you've always had.

This doesn't make sense. Faith has been around since Abel. What does Paul mean by this statement?
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

God gives different people different requirements to express their faith. That's pretty simple. According to your theory, Israel could have just told God, "We don't need to keep the law, but we just have faith".

Paul even mentions this, but you'll never see it:

Rom 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. ​

It's very simple if we look at the context of Romans. From the start he is dealing with Christians who want to incorporate the old law (circumcision) into Christ. That's why he says I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel

That's why he says this:
3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.

If the law brought righteousness then Jesus didn't need to die.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Then he tells them why the law was added.
19 Why the Law then? It was added [ac]because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
The law showed them that they needed a savior but it could not save them.

When Christ came, they were no longer under the law.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Nowhere do you see the LORD Jesus Christ tell them (Israel) that they are no longer under the law.

Israel was never freed from sin by keeping the law, but the law was holy and just and good (as Paul says), and they were required by God to keep it.

As a matter of FACT, the LORD Jesus Christ told them to teach all nations to KEEP the law in Matt 28 (which you will, of course, deny).

While they were under the law they were heirs but they were no different than a slave. They needed to be redeemed from the law to receive adoption as sons.
4:1 Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

In Christ there can be no Jew or Gentile. Former Jews cannot be under the law and IN Christ.
5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

And YET, they ... as a nation... will be restored when God is done with this dispensation of His grace.

Rom 11:11-15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (11:13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: (11:14) If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. (11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
​

What shall the receiving of THEM be?

You do not understand the mystery that Paul speaks of here:

Rom 11:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (11:27) For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (11:28) As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes. (11:29) For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. ​

God is not done with His plans for Israel. Their blindness is temporary. This dispensation of His grace is temporary.