PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I don't know much about your overall theology; but your Eschatology certainly seems to be on point, indicating a great potential likelihood of correct Hermeneutical methods for the rest of scripture.
ECT The Mark, The Number and the Name
- Thread starter fzappa13
- Start date
I don't know much about your overall theology; but your Eschatology certainly seems to be on point, indicating a great potential likelihood of correct Hermeneutical methods for the rest of scripture.
Well, yes ... and if you had read and recalled my offering on the subject you would know that I am aware of and appreciative of this.
You becha.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
I do. Certain moments of dry and ironic humor don't come through in written form. I was humorously pointing it out as a reminder that Nonismatism, though a noble ideal, is paradoxically inapplicable unless rigorously maintained. That would ultimately mean discussing no subject matter from any perspective, which is virtually impossible as you demonstrated.
Right. And... You were asking questions relative to Dispensational application. Maybe you kinda sorta ARE one... within your Nonismatism.:think:
Maybe.
Kinda.
Sorta.
Possibly.
A wee wittle bit. Maybe?
:think:
:devil:
Lon
Well-known member
Also known as Mateoist?
Though the treatise was tongue in cheek it was also genuine. I abhor isms while retaining the right to agree with certain tenets of any of them.
Right. And... You were asking questions relative to Dispensational application. Maybe you kinda sorta ARE one... within your Nonismatism.:think:
Maybe.
Kinda.
Sorta.
Possibly.
A wee wittle bit. Maybe?
:think:
This is what happens when you use a paint roller to paint a model airplane ... the brush is a little broad for anything other than a wall and to try and craft a eschatological wall for the purpose of painting it, out of all who see any of what is written in Revelation as having some future application, does a disservice to them as individuals and students. I ain't no stinking Dispy but there are certain aspects of what they believe that I am in agreement with ... and I have the luxury of this perspective by right of my being a card carrying Nonismatist.
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The worship of money (and what it buys) was at times held back by a faithful church, but no longer, for what overcomes the churches soon overcomes the world.
The Spirit of control and domination follows the same path, first the churches then the whole world.
Buying and selling speaks both of money and of religion.
LA
Ah ... the money changers in the temple.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Actually, it's what happens when someone knows the truth of the Ecclectic nature of The Apocalypse, which encompasses Preterist, Idealist, Historicist, and Futurist tenets in a very specific interwoven manner that belies any assertion of Relativism or Pluralism.
There are cyclical Futurist components. But to cast the bulk of the entire Revelation according to an exclusive Futurist lens is as fallacious as the other extremes being exclusively emphasized. But the Futurist lens does the most damage to Hermeneutical method. It recasts the entirety of church history according to a wrong perspective that is not the intent of divine and human authorship.
History is prophecy?
To be honest I think the very term “Hermeneutical” has the tail wagging the dog. I have never sought a method of interpretation. I have instead sought to let words stand on their own given definition and let that tell the tale … not interpret definitions according to method … or maybe better said doctrine.
How so? Please, do go on.
Also--
The lying signs and wonders appear among the apostate church as also are the wonders of fire falling from heaven by way of bombs.
Two fold fulfillment of the same prophecies.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
LA
whitestone
Well-known member
lol, I always enjoy reading threads about the mark,number,name(image),I include "image" in this because searching through the scriptures terms found between the word "or" also include phrases containing "worshiped the image..." or variations.
These type threads tend to follow the same paths when I read through them. I say this because I note that they always attract the same crowd,type comments,ect. I notice that there are those who are "followers" in that they have "heard an good strong sermon" that begins on good ground,it seamed logical so they assume it to be correct,that is to them it they say "is closest to the way I believe". They seem to always follow the ones who preach the convincing sermon.
Then there are those who "preach the convincing sermon",those who "lay it all out for us" so to speak. They also are attracted to threads similar to yours. I notice about them that they actually do know much more about the mark,name,number,Image than they are willing to publicly state. That is they began the convincing sermon,they attracted those who "follow" in their presentation,but they know that if they continue in their exegesis it will also expose the very flaws of their doctrine. Now if they discuss the main issue of the thread you began and they are trapped into certain issues about the mark and if it be future verses past. There are "little secrets" sitting there,things that they already know that they don't want their "followers" to come to the knowledge of. So they will also always come to lead the discussion away from those touchy portions of understanding that will do damage to their theology.
lol, seems an outlandish set of things I say I know. Never the less continue your own thread and note who says what and why. Now maybe because I said this those who would rather you to not get into an "down to the nitty gritty" discussion of this will not be so conspicuous in their interest.
I will be blunt in saying that "Caesar/Rome" is the very key to understanding what your seeking,,,but,the hurdle is to look to see if it (is not). That is if the Jews in ad66 revolted,printed their own money how can it be said that they "used the mark of the beast"(Caesar's money),when they in fact refused it and printed their own? Ask yourself "did they use Caesars money to buy and sell?". Then,"did they worship Caesar as God or did they revolt against him and refuse to bow down to Caesar?".
Ponder the things written and compare them to the Jewish revolt ad66-70,,, Revelation 13:17 KJV (notice the Jews did not buy nor sell with Caesars money?),,,
Ask "did the Jews in Jerusalem in ad66-70 worship Caesar's image Revelation 13:15 KJV ?" or did they refuse to do so and revolt against Rome?
So in the midst of the many opinions of who's who in regards to who the beast is/was there are the many touchy things that might not be wise to say,hence lead the discussion away from it. That is if the Jews and their temple were brought to their very destruction in ad70,and they did not receive Caesars mark nor worship his image then what would that do to the eschatology of future verses past?
Good point. Though the reference is oblique it is nonetheless there. The image of the beast should be a part of this equation.
whitestone
Well-known member
lol,I didn't see it at first because it's separated(included in wording in other chapters),,,but any of the combination,one or the other,two of them,or three,only one or all four the wrath is poured out on those who do any of the or's,,,
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Biometrics aren't the mark of the beast, nor are implanted microchips. That's a Futurist fallacy (which is a nice way saying it's a lie).
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
Futurists could never be rational enough to even bother learning what other eschatological views historically teach. They have permanent self-installed epistemological blinders.
Time will tell.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
That in itself is a Futurist presupposition, though.