The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
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Wrong science in the UB:
How it is wrong:
"Mercury ... completes three rotations about its axis for every two orbits."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)
Stuart
| P657:5, 57:6.2 The planets nearest the sun were the first to have their revolutions slowed down by tidal friction. Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia. |
How it is wrong:
"Mercury ... completes three rotations about its axis for every two orbits."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_(planet)
Stuart
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
gems.............
gems.............
After a dialogue dovetails into futililty, or your conversations with another poster are no longer constructive, respectful or fruitful (after many attempts),.....you can move on, put them on 'Ignore' and save some time and energy.
As mentioned earlier, it would be much more noble to share the teaching, meanings, values, cosmology, theology of the Urantia Papers and what one feels the Papers contribute to humanity. Any can freely investigate the Papers for themselves, to learn more. - the opportunity is theirs.......
The UB Fellowship
Urantia Foundation
pj
gems.............
After a dialogue dovetails into futililty, or your conversations with another poster are no longer constructive, respectful or fruitful (after many attempts),.....you can move on, put them on 'Ignore' and save some time and energy.
As mentioned earlier, it would be much more noble to share the teaching, meanings, values, cosmology, theology of the Urantia Papers and what one feels the Papers contribute to humanity. Any can freely investigate the Papers for themselves, to learn more. - the opportunity is theirs.......
The UB Fellowship
Urantia Foundation
pj
John Mortimer
New member
Yes - ignoring Stuu but taking up this point...
The Mercurial rotation about its axis is very slow, (if I remember right it takes 59 days to complete one rotation!), but the observation flatly contradicts the UB here.
To those who have, (at least to some extent), made an investment of faith in the Urantia Book - what is your inner response to this?
Truthbook.com:
Mercury and the Moon
"The planets nearest the sun were the first to have their revolutions slowed down by tidal friction. Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia". (657)
Ever since it was discovered that the planet Mercury is still slowly rotating (period of axial revolution is 58.7 days), readers of the Urantia Papers have entered into a polemic about whether the statement on page 657 is, or is not, an error. An answer to that is that the statement may be ambiguous, capable of being taken in several different ways. One way is "...causing a planet to revolve ever slower {as is the case with the planet Mercury}, until axial revolution ceases leaving one hemisphere always turned towards the larger body as is illustrated by the moon which always turns the same face towards Urantia." Without further evidence, there is no way to reach a conclusion that would be satisfatory to everyone. Hence it must be left to individual readers to draw their own conclusion.
Caino
John Mortimer
New member
Thanks, Caino.
Ok, so I understand what's being said there and I do see how the statement from the UB could be taken differently. Therefore I should not have said that the Mercurial rotation about axis "flatly contradicts" the UB - for it does not.
However, if the intent of the statement:
"Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia".
is to illustrate
a. the slowing of rotation about axis
and
b. the cessation of rotation about axis
I would have to ask why Venus was not chosen for the example a.?
Venus is comparatively close to the sun and its period of rotation about axis is 243 days... and therefore a far more vivid illustration than Mercury with it's 59 days.
Very amusing. How about you two read it as it is written (an unpopular approach I know):
"...leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia"
By the way, the planet is called Earth.
Stuart
"...leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia"
By the way, the planet is called Earth.
Stuart
John Mortimer
New member
Stuart, did you read all of my short post? I do not accept the UB as what it claims to be.
Why do you resort to presenting only half of the sentence in order to make it seem as if the UB statement can only be taken one way?
Why all this hostility?
Yes, and this is an issue I have been intending to bring up on this thread for a while now. When I do, I sincerely hope I can avoid manifesting the childish hubris of your quote. If your only intention is express your contempt then I think we've all got the message - Stuu finds the Urantia Book contemptible. Fine - ok - what do you hope to achieve by repeating this incessantly?
Wrong science in the Book of Stealing:
How it is wrong:
"The detrital zircon crystals dated to 4.4 Ga show evidence of having undergone contact with liquid water, considered as proof that the planet already had oceans or seas at that time. From crater counts on other celestial bodies it is inferred that a period of intense meteorite impacts, called the "Late Heavy Bombardment", began about 4.1 Ga, and concluded around 3.8 Ga, at the end of the Hadean.
By the beginning of the Archaean, the Earth had cooled significantly. It would have been impossible for most present day life forms to exist due to the composition of the Archaean atmosphere, which lacked oxygen and an ozone layer. Nevertheless it is believed that primordial life began to evolve by the early Archaean, with some possible fossil finds dated to around 3.5 Ga. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth#Hadean_and_Archaean_eons
"The prevailing hypothesis today is that the Earth–Moon system formed as a result of a giant impact: a Mars-sized body hit the nearly formed proto-Earth, blasting material into orbit around the proto-Earth, which accreted to form the Moon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Formation
Stuart
| 57:7.4 1,500,000,000 years ago the earth was two thirds its present size, while the moon was nearing its present mass. Earth's rapid gain over the moon in size enabled it to begin the slow robbery of the little atmosphere which its satellite originally had. |
How it is wrong:
"The detrital zircon crystals dated to 4.4 Ga show evidence of having undergone contact with liquid water, considered as proof that the planet already had oceans or seas at that time. From crater counts on other celestial bodies it is inferred that a period of intense meteorite impacts, called the "Late Heavy Bombardment", began about 4.1 Ga, and concluded around 3.8 Ga, at the end of the Hadean.
By the beginning of the Archaean, the Earth had cooled significantly. It would have been impossible for most present day life forms to exist due to the composition of the Archaean atmosphere, which lacked oxygen and an ozone layer. Nevertheless it is believed that primordial life began to evolve by the early Archaean, with some possible fossil finds dated to around 3.5 Ga. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth#Hadean_and_Archaean_eons
"The prevailing hypothesis today is that the Earth–Moon system formed as a result of a giant impact: a Mars-sized body hit the nearly formed proto-Earth, blasting material into orbit around the proto-Earth, which accreted to form the Moon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Formation
Stuart
Good for you.
I don't think there is any other way to read it. Mercury is presented as an example of a planet that only faces one side towards the sun, which was the prevailing idea when the UB was being written.
It is a question of justice. We all either stand on the shoulders of giants when it comes to science, or benefit directly from the science stolen by the UB and credited in ambiguous terms with references to various non-existent beings. That is an abuse of the intellectual property of those scientists, and is especially that when Sadler stole others' words and not only reproduced them without permission but altered them to suit his fantasy fiction. It is also a question of setting wrong science in concrete, which is an abuse of the scientific method.
Don't know. Maybe an apology from those who perpetrate the dishonesty of the plagiarism. Maybe they will grow a moral backbone and cease and desist.
Would you hold out any hope of that? It is not the most serious ripoff in the world today, especially given how few people have paid any attention to the book, but ripoff it is nonetheless.
Stuart
John Mortimer
New member
Yes, this IS a very important point. Setting even what seems to be correct science in stone is an abuse of the scientific method as the history of classical mechanics / quantum mechanics illustrates.
Anyhow - I really would like feedback from the Urantia people on the "why not Venus?" issue.
Thanks, Caino.
Ok, so I understand what's being said there and I do see how the statement from the UB could be taken differently. Therefore I should not have said that the Mercurial rotation about axis "flatly contradicts" the UB - for it does not.
However, if the intent of the statement:
"Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia".
is to illustrate
a. the slowing of rotation about axis
and
b. the cessation of rotation about axis
I would have to ask why Venus was not chosen for the example a.?
Venus is comparatively close to the sun and its period of rotation about axis is 243 days... and therefore a far more vivid illustration than Mercury with it's 59 days.
Hi John,
I'm not sure but what we have been figuring out over the years of critical analysis of these kinds of statements in the UB is that there are apparently very specific reasons for all that the papers say.
Science, Anthropology and Archaeology
in The Urantia Book
by Ken Glasziou
in The Urantia Book
by Ken Glasziou
http://urantiabook.org:5631/highlight/index.html?url=http%3A//urantiabook.org/archive/readers/doc184.htm&hltcol=fefsite&charset=utf-8&la=en&fterm=Venus&search=../query.html%3Fcharset%3Dutf-8%26col%3Dfefsite%26qt%3DVenus
"The Urantia Book states that retrograde motion in any astronomical system is always accidental and the result of collisional impact of foreign space bodies. In our solar system, retrograde motion is exhibited by Venus , Uranus, and Pluto, as well as the four outer moons of Jupiter which orbit it in the opposite direction to its other twelve moons.3
Evidence for the capture of "space bodies" by our planet The Urantia Book also states that 2 billion years ago our planet captured enormous space bodies that markedly increased its mass. (659) In The Planets, Henbest tells us that the peculiar composition of planet Mercury, plus other parallel evidence, has caused astronomers to now think that the birth of the "rocky" planets ( Venus , Mercury, Earth, and Mars) involved collisions between bodies we can think of as giant asteroids or small planets.3
I'm guessing, could the difference be that Venus was slowed more by a collision then the influence of tidal friction? Therefore, Mercury was a better example because the context was "tidal friction slowing rates of rotation"?
Caino
Lost Comet
New member
The UB is not sacrosanct.
(1109.2) 101:4.1 Because your world is generally ignorant of origins, even of physical origins, it has appeared to be wise from time to time to provide instruction in cosmology. And always has this made trouble for the future. The laws of revelation hamper us greatly by their proscription of the impartation of unearned or premature knowledge. Any cosmology presented as a part of revealed religion is destined to be outgrown in a very short time. Accordingly, future students of such a revelation are tempted to discard any element of genuine religious truth it may contain because they discover errors on the face of the associated cosmologies therein presented.
John Mortimer
New member
Right - that makes perfect sense. It even sheds light on why the statement about the moon and mercury was couched the way it was.
Excellent! :up:
Lost Comet
New member
Well, it was between that quote and this one:
(969.5) 88:2.7 In olden times the fetish word of authority was a fear-inspiring doctrine, the most terrible of all tyrants which enslave men. A doctrinal fetish will lead mortal man to betray himself into the clutches of bigotry, fanaticism, superstition, intolerance, and the most atrocious of barbarous cruelties. Modern respect for wisdom and truth is but the recent escape from the fetish-making tendency up to the higher levels of thinking and reasoning. Concerning the accumulated fetish writings which various religionists hold as sacred books, it is not only believed that what is in the book is true, but also that every truth is contained in the book. If one of these sacred books happens to speak of the earth as being flat, then, for long generations, otherwise sane men and women will refuse to accept positive evidence that the planet is round.
Skeptics like Stuu make a fetish of skepticism.
If you recall, Jesus would raise the hopes of his followers only to dash them to the ground. It was a way of removing those whose motives were insincere, selfish or for vanity's sake.
It doesn't make perfect sense at all. What a load of wittering from the petty Science Adjustor Sadler, and I'm afraid from you too.
Stuart
| 57:6.2 The planets nearest the sun were the first to have their revolutions slowed down by tidal friction. Such gravitational influences also contribute to the stabilization of planetary orbits while acting as a brake on the rate of planetary-axial revolution, causing a planet to revolve ever slower until axial revolution ceases, leaving one hemisphere of the planet always turned toward the sun or larger body, as is illustrated by the planet Mercury and by the moon, which always turns the same face toward Urantia. |
It doesn't say mercury is an example of slowing, it says it is an example of a body that has one hemisphere always turned toward the sun, but actually it isn't. Venus isn't either.
By the way, axial revolution does not "cease", a tidally-locked body continues to rotate with the same period as the period of the orbit.
Stuart
Lost Comet
New member
Give it up Stuu. Your concerns have been shown to be completely and totally irrelevant.
You do know the definition of insanity, don't you? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. :dizzy:
You do know the definition of insanity, don't you? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. :dizzy:
You are welcome to ignore the immorality of the Book of Plagiarism. You do not share the shame of apologising for stealing.
I'm quite satisfied with the results thanks.
Stuart
Where Science was wrong and the UB was right
Where Science was wrong and the UB was right
The Urantia Book defines Neanderthal Man differently than contemporary scholarship.
http://www.ubthenews.com/taxonomy.htm
64:3.5 850,000 years ago the superior Badonan tribes began a warfare of extermination directed against their inferior and animalistic neighbors. In less than one thousand years most of the borderland animal groups of these regions had been either destroyed or driven back to the southern forests. This campaign for the extermination of inferiors brought about a slight improvement in the hill tribes of that age. And the mixed descendants of this improved Badonite stock appeared on the stage of action as an apparently new people -- the Neanderthal race.
4. THE NEANDERTHAL RACES
64:4.1 The Neanderthalers were excellent fighters, and they traveled extensively. They gradually spread from the highland centers in northwest India to France on the west, China on the east, and even down into northern Africa. They dominated the world for almost half a million years until the times of the migration of the evolutionary races of color.
64:4.2 800,000 years ago game was abundant; many species of deer, as well as elephants and hippopotamuses, roamed over Europe. Cattle were plentiful; horses and wolves were everywhere. The Neanderthalers were great hunters, and the tribes in France were the first to adopt the practice of giving the most successful hunters the choice of women for wives.
64:4.3 The reindeer was highly useful to these Neanderthal peoples, serving as food, clothing, and for tools, since they made various uses of the horns and bones. They had little culture, but they greatly improved the work in flint until it almost reached the levels of the days of Andon. Large flints attached to wooden handles came back into use and served as axes and picks.
64:4.4 750,000 years ago the fourth ice sheet was well on its way south. With their improved implements the Neanderthalers made holes in the ice covering the northern rivers and thus were able to spear the fish which came up to these vents. Ever these tribes retreated before the advancing ice, which at this time made its most extensive invasion of Europe
http://www.history.com/news/2011/04/28/did-homo-erectus-craft-complex-tools-and-weapons/
"But in 2009, new research revealed that Peking Man was much older, raising questions about how these primitive cave dwellers weathered the cold some 700,000 years ago."..........
http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/200908121889/Evidence-for-Use-of-Fire-Found-at-Peking-Man-Site.html
Archaeologists have discovered several vertebrate fossils, ashes, burned bones and charcoal remnants at the Zhoukoudian caves, also known as the "Peking Man" site, China News Service reported on Monday.
The discovery proves that Peking man was able to use fire roughly 200-000 to 500,000 years ago, the article said. Many foreign experts once cast doubt on whether Peking Man could use fire at that time, because in past decades they found no direct evidence for its use. The recent archaeological discoveries directly refute their doubts, the article said.
Now, work by a team of scientists based in China and the United States reveals that the Zhoukoudian cave fossils are about 770,000 years old â€" much more ancient than previous estimates of 230,000â€"500,000 years.
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090311/full/news.2009.149.html
Now, work by a team of scientists based in China and the United States reveals that the Zhoukoudian cave fossils are about 770,000 years old â€" much more ancient than previous estimates of 230,000â€"500,000 years.
The new dates are based on the effects of cosmic rays on aluminium and beryllium isotopes in miniscule quartz grains â€" which Chinese researchers meticulously selected from sedimentary sand in weeks of painstaking work. The isotopic method was also applied successfully to three quartz tools. The research is published in Nature1.
Homo erectus
...."There is still disagreement on the subject of the classification, ancestry, and progeny of H. erectus, with two major alternative hypotheses: erectus may be another name for Homo ergaster, and therefore the direct ancestor of later hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo sapiens; or it may be an Asian species distinct from African ergaster.[1][2][3]....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
This is a link to a wonderful timeline pictorial coinciding with the history of the evolutionary races as revealed by the UB. It was created by Saskia Praamsma of Square Circles publishing.
http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/race/andonites/Andonites.htm
Caino
.
Where Science was wrong and the UB was right
Peking Man validating the Neanderthal's of the UB
The Urantia Book defines Neanderthal Man differently than contemporary scholarship.
http://www.ubthenews.com/taxonomy.htm
64:3.5 850,000 years ago the superior Badonan tribes began a warfare of extermination directed against their inferior and animalistic neighbors. In less than one thousand years most of the borderland animal groups of these regions had been either destroyed or driven back to the southern forests. This campaign for the extermination of inferiors brought about a slight improvement in the hill tribes of that age. And the mixed descendants of this improved Badonite stock appeared on the stage of action as an apparently new people -- the Neanderthal race.
4. THE NEANDERTHAL RACES
64:4.1 The Neanderthalers were excellent fighters, and they traveled extensively. They gradually spread from the highland centers in northwest India to France on the west, China on the east, and even down into northern Africa. They dominated the world for almost half a million years until the times of the migration of the evolutionary races of color.
64:4.2 800,000 years ago game was abundant; many species of deer, as well as elephants and hippopotamuses, roamed over Europe. Cattle were plentiful; horses and wolves were everywhere. The Neanderthalers were great hunters, and the tribes in France were the first to adopt the practice of giving the most successful hunters the choice of women for wives.
64:4.3 The reindeer was highly useful to these Neanderthal peoples, serving as food, clothing, and for tools, since they made various uses of the horns and bones. They had little culture, but they greatly improved the work in flint until it almost reached the levels of the days of Andon. Large flints attached to wooden handles came back into use and served as axes and picks.
64:4.4 750,000 years ago the fourth ice sheet was well on its way south. With their improved implements the Neanderthalers made holes in the ice covering the northern rivers and thus were able to spear the fish which came up to these vents. Ever these tribes retreated before the advancing ice, which at this time made its most extensive invasion of Europe
http://www.history.com/news/2011/04/28/did-homo-erectus-craft-complex-tools-and-weapons/
"But in 2009, new research revealed that Peking Man was much older, raising questions about how these primitive cave dwellers weathered the cold some 700,000 years ago."..........
http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/200908121889/Evidence-for-Use-of-Fire-Found-at-Peking-Man-Site.html
Archaeologists have discovered several vertebrate fossils, ashes, burned bones and charcoal remnants at the Zhoukoudian caves, also known as the "Peking Man" site, China News Service reported on Monday.
The discovery proves that Peking man was able to use fire roughly 200-000 to 500,000 years ago, the article said. Many foreign experts once cast doubt on whether Peking Man could use fire at that time, because in past decades they found no direct evidence for its use. The recent archaeological discoveries directly refute their doubts, the article said.
Now, work by a team of scientists based in China and the United States reveals that the Zhoukoudian cave fossils are about 770,000 years old â€" much more ancient than previous estimates of 230,000â€"500,000 years.
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090311/full/news.2009.149.html
Now, work by a team of scientists based in China and the United States reveals that the Zhoukoudian cave fossils are about 770,000 years old â€" much more ancient than previous estimates of 230,000â€"500,000 years.
The new dates are based on the effects of cosmic rays on aluminium and beryllium isotopes in miniscule quartz grains â€" which Chinese researchers meticulously selected from sedimentary sand in weeks of painstaking work. The isotopic method was also applied successfully to three quartz tools. The research is published in Nature1.
Homo erectus
...."There is still disagreement on the subject of the classification, ancestry, and progeny of H. erectus, with two major alternative hypotheses: erectus may be another name for Homo ergaster, and therefore the direct ancestor of later hominids such as Homo heidelbergensis, Homo neanderthalensis, and Homo sapiens; or it may be an Asian species distinct from African ergaster.[1][2][3]....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
This is a link to a wonderful timeline pictorial coinciding with the history of the evolutionary races as revealed by the UB. It was created by Saskia Praamsma of Square Circles publishing.
http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/race/andonites/Andonites.htm
Caino
.
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