The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

cosmology

cosmology

Stephen Hawking: God Has No Role in Universe

Hawking, smart but unwise.

UB:

The First Source and Center is related to the universe as:
0:3.6 1. The gravity forces of the material universes are convergent in the gravity center of nether Paradise. That is just why the geographic location of his person is eternally fixed in absolute relation to the force-energy center of the nether or material plane of Paradise. But the absolute personality of Deity exists on the upper or spiritual plane of Paradise.

0:3.7 2. The mind forces are convergent in the Infinite Spirit; the differential and divergent cosmic mind in the Seven Master Spirits; the factualizing mind of the Supreme as a time-space experience in Majeston.

0:3.8 3. The universe spirit forces are convergent in the Eternal Son.

0:3.9 4. The unlimited capacity for deity action resides in the Deity Absolute.

0:3.10 5. The unlimited capacity for infinity response exists in the Unqualified Absolute.

0:3.11 6. The two Absolutes—Qualified and Unqualified—are co-ordinated and unified in and by the Universal Absolute.

0:3.12 7. The potential personality of an evolutionary moral being or of any other moral being is centered in the personality of the Universal Father.

41.9.2 Atoms and electrons are subject to gravity. The ultimatons are not subject to local gravity, the interplay of material attraction, but they are fully obedient to absolute or Paradise gravity, to the trend, the swing, of the universal and eternal circle of the universe of universes. ultimatonic energy does not obey the linear or direct gravity attraction of near-by or remote material masses, but it does ever swing true to the circuit of the great ellipse of the far-flung creation.

The Papers have one of the most awesome presentations on universe cosmology ever -


Studies of Urantia Book Cosmology :thumb:



pj

 

[freelight]

Paul, the first heretic.......

Paul, the first heretic.......

The biggest problem I see with your theories put forward against Paul is that the Christian experience so closely resembles Paul's own conversion, as well as the fact that The Gospel is made more clear and applicable by his epistles. I'm more sure of Paul being an apostle than I am of owning my own home or car (both of which are title in my name). His calling and election are sure, and God's Word is too.

The problems with Paul are manifold, on various levels, recognized by many, 'his gospel' being a syncretism of judaism, greek philosophy, gnostic elements, mystery-religion, his own 'revelations'.... plus not all the letters ascribed to him are deemed to be genuinely his (his actual writing).

The Pauline Conspiracy

Paul and the Law

You place an incredible amount of faith in Paul. I accept some of the gnostic, allegorical and spiritual teachings of Paul, however he took the ball and ran with it so to speak, spearheading his own brand of 'Christianity'....veering from the gospel of Jesus and teachings held by the Jerusalem assembly led by James the Just, Jesus brother. We cover this in the Paul threads.



pj

 

[One Truth]

Christianity isn't based upon fear, it is based upon God's Love. If you don't realize that, then you're not familiar with Christianity at all, only someone's misguided opinion about it.

If this were true then there would be no need for preaching "hell, the lake of fire, eternal damnation", etc. It is with sometimes very subtle fear, such as, "are you saved, do you want to spend eternity in heaven" which draws people into Christianity.

I am well familiar with Christianity. I was once deeply involved with the Charismatic Movement (not the Pentecostal Church) and I know very well the fear that runs deep through this religion. Fear of demons, fear of "the devil", fear of being human. It's really very apparent only after you have been freed from it's claws. I am not totally against Christianity and it does preach the love of God, but the religion as a whole has certainly been influenced by certain pagan beliefs.

Every time people got together they were so involved in "binding the devil" that there was no room for allowing the Spirit to move.

I could go on and on but I know where you are coming from and I will allow you to continue where you are until you come to the knowledge of truth.

 

[Caino]

If this were true then there would be no need for preaching "hell, the lake of fire, eternal damnation", etc. It is with sometimes very subtle fear, such as, "are you saved, do you want to spend eternity in heaven" which draws people into Christianity.

I am well familiar with Christianity. I was once deeply involved with the Charismatic Movement (not the Pentecostal Church) and I know very well the fear that runs deep through this religion. Fear of demons, fear of "the devil", fear of being human. It's really very apparent only after you have be freed from it's claws. I am not totally against Christianity and it does preach the love of God, but the religion as a whole has certainly be influenced by certain pagan beliefs.

Every time people got together they were so involved in "binding the devil" that there was no room for allowing the Spirit to move.

I could go on and on but I know where you are coming from and I will allow you to continue where you are until you come to the knowledge of truth.

So true, its sad to see the confusion and fear that dominates Christians. The evangelicals talk constantly about what Satan is doing, demons, fire and punishment.

Caino

 

[One Truth]

I said:

To live on someone else's "experience" is surely missing the "mark"

.

Aimiel said:

Amen.

It is contradictory to say "Amen" if you believe that Jesus (His experience) is substitutionary for your own as most Christians believe His death on the cross was.

Jesus' life, nor His death, nor His resurrection was not in any way substitutionary.

The highest sacrifice any man can make (and you have to do it yourself) is to say: "It is my will that Your will be done". The surrender of our will to that of the Father's.

Nothing is substitutionary. Experience is an individual thing.

 

[Aimiel]

The problems with Paul are manifold, on various levels, recognized by many, 'his gospel' being a syncretism of judaism, greek philosophy, gnostic elements, mystery-religion, his own 'revelations'.... plus not all the letters ascribed to him are deemed to be genuinely his (his actual writing).

Hogwash. Not only does it not matter that you've gone off on a tangent again (as usual) but you're attacking the messenger, without grasping the message.

You place an incredible amount of faith in Paul.

Liar. I have none whatsoever. My faith is in Christ. We can see, as I've said several times now, that Paul was whom he says he was, and was a believer and an apostle, and probably the greatest apostle, due to having written about 2/3 of The New Testament. He called himself the chief of sinners. He knew that he walked in far less than what God had shown him. He knew how to be humbled. He knew how to teach and how to preach. Far more than I can say for you.

I accept some of the gnostic, allegorical and spiritual teachings of Paul, however he took the ball and ran with it so to speak, spearheading his own brand of 'Christianity'....veering from the gospel of Jesus and teachings held by the Jerusalem assembly led by James the Just, Jesus brother. We cover this in the Paul threads.

Then why go off on a tangent persuing Paul here? Why attack his credibility? Just because you can find hogwash all over the internet painting him as a philosopher or a Greek or a gnostic? It's worthless garbage, just like the new age dregs you scrape together and post on your website. It's worthless garbage. There's nothing but doctrines of demons on your website and spinning around in your empty head.

 

[Aimiel]

If this were true then there would be no need for preaching "hell, the lake of fire, eternal damnation", etc. It is with sometimes very subtle fear, such as, "are you saved, do you want to spend eternity in heaven" which draws people into Christianity.

Just because hell is real, and believing in Jesus keeps one from going there, doesn't make it a religion of fear. I didn't know the first thing about hell, or expect that it might be real (not knowing about it at all) when I was convicted and got saved. I don't use the tactics you've mentioned. I've evangelized with a LOT of different people, from MANY different denominations, and have never seen anyone who did. I've seen them on TV, but don't think that type of evangelism works. God designed His Kingdom such that it is so lovely, it draws men into It by Itself. His Kingdom is real. It is with those who believe in Him. It shows up, when God is glorified. Jesus draws all men unto Himself; He doesn't give us a whip and tell us to drive folks into Heaven. That just wouldn't work. I can preach hell so hot you can smell sulphur, but I don't do it to scare anybody into Heaven. I want to let people know that hell is real, and to be avoided at all costs. It isn't fear: it's wisdom.

I am well familiar with Christianity. I was once deeply involved with the Charismatic Movement (not the Pentecostal Church) and I know very well the fear that runs deep through this religion.

I'm Charismatic. I don't smell any fear. I don't see anyone driven by, teaching or preaching fear. You must be talking about some other Charismatic religion. Not at our church.

Fear of demons, fear of "the devil", fear of being human.

We're not afraid of demons. Satan either. Or of being human, and making mistakes.

It's really very apparent only after you have been freed from it's claws. I am not totally against Christianity and it does preach the love of God, but the religion as a whole has certainly been influenced by certain pagan beliefs.

The whole of humanity has been. Modern science is still influenced by pagan beliefs. Secular society IS pagan.

Every time people got together they were so involved in "binding the devil" that there was no room for allowing the Spirit to move.

Satan cannot be bound. :duh:

I could go on and on but I know where you are coming from and I will allow you to continue where you are until you come to the knowledge of truth.

:blabla:

 

[Aimiel]

It is contradictory to say "Amen" if you believe that Jesus (His experience) is substitutionary for your own as most Christians believe His death on the cross was. Jesus' life, nor His death, nor His resurrection was not in any way substitutionary. Nothing is substitutionary. Experience is an individual thing.

The wages of sin is death. One day you will die. Jesus died so that you don't have to. If you believe in Him, you won't die. We don't live vicariously through Jesus. He lives through us. We aren't alive any more. We died at Calvary. He lives in us.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[freelight]

the religious ego's defense mechanisms.............

the religious ego's defense mechanisms.............

Hogwash. Not only does it not matter that you've gone off on a tangent again (as usual) but you're attacking the messenger, without grasping the message.

I didnt bring up Paul earlier, but am merely sharing more info. about him as a 'follow-up'. Your spiteful knee-jerk over-reaction is very telling. - and your condescending manners do nothing to ennoble your belief-system or you as a person. - pretty ugly.

Liar. I have none whatsoever. My faith is in Christ. We can see, as I've said several times now, that Paul was whom he says he was, and was a believer and an apostle, and probably the greatest apostle, due to having written about 2/3 of The New Testament. He called himself the chief of sinners. He knew that he walked in far less than what God had shown him. He knew how to be humbled. He knew how to teach and how to preach.

My assessment of your incredible faith in Paul remains, for you yourself gave us this impression by your very words -

"I'm more sure of Paul being an apostle than I am of owning my own home or car (both of which are title in my name)."

You're now back on Ignore since continuing dialogue with you is fruitless. You cant see the forest for the trees, and continually resort to put downs. I tire of it.

Selah,



pj

 

[Aimiel]

My assessment of your incredible faith in Paul remains, for you yourself gave us this impression by your very words -

"I'm more sure of Paul being an apostle than I am of owning my own home or car (both of which are title in my name)."

Yes, I believe that Paul was an apostle. I don't have faith in him. I have faith in The One Who blinded him on the road to Damascus. I wish you could meet Him.

You're now back on Ignore since continuing dialogue with you is fruitless. You cant see the forest for the trees, and continually resort to put downs. I tire of it.

You are the biggest hypocrite on TOL, and will continue to be, since you haven't yet repented and believed The Gospel. Believe me, being ignored by the likes of you isn't any punishment. :chuckle:

 

[freelight]

in the following...............

in the following...............

The highest sacrifice any man can make (and you have to do it yourself) is to say: "It is my will that Your will be done". The surrender of our will to that of the Father's.

Indeed, the surrender of our entire being to 'God' is the true 'sacrifice', of spirit, soul and body. There is nothing else required as our initial love-response. None can offer this sacrifice for us, or in our place.....we must do our part. Jesus serves as the example for us to follow.

Jesus does not require his disciples to believe in him but rather to believe with him, believe in the reality of the love of God and in full confidence accept the security of the assurance of sonship with the heavenly Father. The Master desires that all his followers should fully share his transcendent faith. Jesus most touchingly challenged his followers, not only to believe what he believed, but also to believe as he believed. This is the full significance of his one supreme requirement, " Follow me. " - UB, 196:0.13

pj

 

[Lost Comet]

I've been reading the UB off and on for about 30 years. Although I try to glean insight from wherever I can find it, I always come back to the UB when I want the peace of mind consistency of thought affords.

 

[One Truth]

I've been reading the UB off and on for about 30 years. Although I try to glean insight from wherever I can find it, I always come back to the UB when I want the peace of mind consistency of thought affords.

Ditto! Why is that?

 

[Caino]

I've been reading the UB off and on for about 30 years. Although I try to glean insight from wherever I can find it, I always come back to the UB when I want the peace of mind consistency of thought affords.

Nice to have you on board Lost Comet :wave:


Caino

 

[Caino]

Its interesting to observe so many diverse opinions within the same religious sects on these forums. One can appreciate how religions subdivide into so many different doctrines and creeds. Even on a topic like "sin".


"Rationalism is wrong when it assumes that religion is at first a primitive belief in something which is then followed by the pursuit of values. Religion is primarily a pursuit of values, and then there formulates a system of interpretative beliefs. It is much easier for men to agree on religious values — goals — than on beliefs — interpretations. And this explains how religion can agree on values and goals while exhibiting the confusing phenomenon of maintaining a belief in hundreds of conflicting beliefs — creeds. This also explains why a given person can maintain his religious experience in the face of giving up or changing many of his religious beliefs. Religion persists in spite of revolutionary changes in religious beliefs. Theology does not produce religion; it is religion that produces theologic philosophy."



Caino

 

[Lost Comet]

Thank you Caino.

Ditto! Why is that?

The UB gives me a conceptual frame for the only constant I have in life: God. Mind you, I'm not necessarily talking about factual content here. Also, there is much in the UB that, to me, is superfluous. Yet, taken as a whole, nothing else I've come across is so consistent or so reasonable. It just feels right.

Coming back to the UB after exploring other venues is like coming home after a long vacation.

 

[Caino]

Thank you Caino.The UB gives me a conceptual frame for the only constant I have in life: God. Mind you, I'm not necessarily talking about factual content here. Also, there is much in the UB that, to me, is superfluous. Yet, taken as a whole, nothing else I've come across is so consistent or so reasonable. It just feels right.

Coming back to the UB after exploring other venues is like coming home after a long vacation.

I have a similar relationship with the UB. As a child my family would be gathered in the den watching Archie Bunker, dad would be over in his reading chair with "big blue" in his lap. Every so often dad would speak up and read off some profound sentence from the UB. Like you, I just "knew" the truth when I heard it. It was as if I had already known these things.

While my family attended a Methodist church, I had always had conflict in my heart with some of the inconsistent teachings. I was horrified by the portrayals of God in the OT and the Book of revelation. Noah's flood story was just ridiculous! Old earth and evolution has always been sort of "obvious" to me. So the UB teachings were like water spread out across parched soil for me.


There is a reality in religious experience that is proportional to the spiritual content, and such a reality is transcendent to reason, science, philosophy, wisdom, and all other human achievements. The convictions of such an experience are unassailable; the logic of religious living is incontrovertible; the certainty of such knowledge is superhuman; the satisfactions are superbly divine, the courage indomitable, the devotions unquestioning, the loyalties supreme, and the destinies final — eternal, ultimate, and universal.



Caino

 

[Majeston]

Here is a decent history of how the Urantia revelation came to be.

http://urantiabook.org/archive/mjs_archive/mjs_historicity.htm

 

[ThePresbyteers]

This message is deleted and closed.

 

[freelight]

So the UB universes are real physical universes that can be seen with a telescope or is it in other unseen dimensions?

Anything seen thru our most powerful telescopes is limited to the realm of our immediate local universe (Nebadon), or however far the range of our scopes extend. The extended cosmos and 7 Superuniverses that surround the Isle of Paradise are beyond what our scopes at this point in time can capture. The UB provides a cosmological layout of the Grand Universe and the journey of mortals towards their Paradise Goal.

UB Cosmology

Urantology Study Aids

Ascent to Paradise

pj