The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Nang]

This drivel isnt worth my time. If and when you have something to add to the discussion or can carry on a rational dialogue....maybe i'll engage. In the meantime, knock yourself out.

I once defended your words as being negatively declared "drivel" and now I see you accusing a child of God with the same negative language and disrespect.

May God grant you His righteous discernment and true repentance . . .

 

[Lon]

Show us where what I shared on the kingdom of God and about God being our Father is not a concept found in the Bible. We'll be waiting.

"We'll?" lain: That "isn't" the gospel so you are obfuscating...."I'll" be waiting... :yawn:

This drivel isnt worth my time. If and when you have something to add to the discussion or can carry on a rational dialogue....maybe i'll engage. In the meantime, knock yourself out.

:yawn:

You are under the delusion that the Bible has to be mentioned for something to be true which is absurd. You worship that book as if it were God which is idolatry.

:nono: Matthew 4:4 Isaiah 55:11 Matthew 24:35 I do worship God and listen to what He says. You? :nono: You worship your intellect, which isn't as sharp as you seem to think it is. Other people tell you that in thread. GM tells you that about every day. You should listen. The Bible DOES have to be mentioned. 1 Peter 1:25 Isaiah 40:8 You should read it.

Read the link provided to educate yourself about what the UB teaches or leave the thread since your wasting everyones time.

Does it claim to be the authoritative word of God that all men must live by, every word? Matthew 4:4 :nono: Nope. lain: Not even in the ballpark.

But hey, while your being a 'sock puppet' and being willfully ignorant, you're keeping the thread active to help expand one's horizons...so pat yourself on the back.

You are the arrogant one here. I'm not on a UB website, neither is she. In fact, without your thread here, I'd have easily happily ignored U-rant-a lot. Interesting how you weirdos pick "Moron-I" and "U-rant-a" lot as if even you guys are into making fun of how dumb it sounds lain: Good grief grow a brain!!

Please answer the question above or be ignored since space and time are valuable.

Done. Not that it wasn't a waste of my time. Please consider that you need the Lord God Jesus Christ. There is to be no meeting of the ways, but you came here challenging that when you first approached TOL. You guys came looking for fights and lie to yourselves that you are 'the nice guys.' :nono: You guys are the ones who came to debate and fight and then cry like babies when someone picks up the gauntlet.

 

[Lon]

You came shunning the Christian gospel. Audaciously challenging it with this thread and more. Look how the response comes!

I once defended your words as being negatively declared "drivel" and now I see you accusing a child of God with the same negative language and disrespect.

May God grant you His righteous discernment and true repentance . . .

As loving as I could imagine it being said too! Pay attention PJ! Acts 17:30

 

[TulipBee]

Show us where what I shared on the kingdom of God and about God being our Father is not a concept found in the Bible. We'll be waiting.

You are under the delusion that the Bible has to be mentioned for something to be true which is absurd. You worship that book as if it were God which is idolatry.

Read the link provided to educate yourself about what the UB teaches or leave the thread since your wasting everyones time. But hey, while your being a 'sock puppet' and being willfully ignorant, you're keeping the thread active to help expand one's horizons...so pat yourself on the back.

Please answer the question above or be ignored since space and time are valuable.

Sorry, I didn't finish reading your posts but we do know you rely on urantianism to pick and choose what is true and what is false in the original gospel as written in the bible. No way you can claim the truths in the bible while denying it to be of errors. You speak urantian and the elected followers speak biblicalism that is God breathed. You can't be confident in doubts.

 

[freelight]

The kingdom in our midst......

The kingdom in our midst......

Sorry, I didn't finish reading your posts but we do know you rely on urantianism to pick and choose what is true and what is false in the original gospel as written in the bible. No way you can claim the truths in the bible while denying it to be of errors. You speak urantian and the elected followers speak biblicalism that is God breathed. You can't be confident in doubts.

See: kingdom of heaven & Gospel, The Good News

You've also failed to show that 'The Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man' is a concept not found in the Bible, which is central to what the papers teach. Jesus taught us to pray to "Our Father in heaven".

Its pretty simple.....its the message that God is our father, we are his children, love God and one another. Follow? -these are 2 fundamental precepts mentioned in the Torah but further expounded upon....being the universal law of love which is the supreme law.

140:10.9 John asked Jesus, “Master, what is the kingdom of heaven?” And Jesus answered: “The kingdom of heaven consists in these three essentials: first, recognition of the fact of the sovereignty of God; second, belief in the truth of sonship with God; and third, faith in the effectiveness of the supreme human desire to do the will of God—to be like God. And this is the good news of the gospel: that by faith every mortal may have all these essentials of salvation.”

141:6.4 That night Jesus discoursed to the apostles on the new life in the kingdom. He said in part: “When you enter the kingdom, you are reborn. You cannot teach the deep things of the spirit to those who have been born only of the flesh; first see that men are born of the spirit before you seek to instruct them in the advanced ways of the spirit. Do not undertake to show men the beauties of the temple until you have first taken them into the temple. Introduce men to God and as the sons of God before you discourse on the doctrines of the fatherhood of God and the sonship of men. Do not strive with men—always be patient. It is not your kingdom; you are only ambassadors. Simply go forth proclaiming: This is the kingdom of heaven—God is your Father and you are his sons, and this good news, if you wholeheartedly believe it, is your eternal salvation.”

This is the original gospel in a nutshell presented in the papers. Is it pretty clear?

 

[freelight]

I once defended your words as being negatively declared "drivel" and now I see you accusing a child of God with the same negative language and disrespect.

May God grant you His righteous discernment and true repentance . . .

I think you need to read the greater context and content of our exchange and see that his mockery and condescending belitting language is 'drivel', hence my calling it what it is. Respect is earned, you have to give a little before you receive it.

 

[Lon]

With quaint "horse-puckyZ" titles.

With quaint "horse-puckyZ" titles.

I think you need to read the greater context and content of our exchange and see that his mockery and condescending belitting language is 'drivel', hence my calling it what it is. Respect is earned, you have to give a little before you receive it.

Not at all. It is very important to give you a clear image of what you try to hide in politeness. You are NOT in fact, being polite on TOL. You are attacking the foundations of Christianity but trying to do it in a sneaky polite, and underhanded manner.

This is NOT polite machination, PJ. Not at all. Don't start crying like a baby when someone sees you trying to chip away. Can it be done? :nono: The sooner you take your wink and realize there is no dent from your proverbial spoon. This wall (Christianity) has the walls and foundation built by God. There is going to be no chipping away of what God does. Hebrews 11:10 (take 2 seconds and read verses I post here, they are for YOUR good, not to harm you but help you).

 

[freelight]

Free will liberties and how divine will prevails at last......

Free will liberties and how divine will prevails at last......

Back to those open minded lurkers hungry for truth:


118:8.4 The great danger that besets the creature is that, in achieving liberation from the fetters of the life mechanism, he will fail to compensate this loss of stability by effecting a harmonious working liaison with spirit. Creature choice, when relatively liberated from mechanical stability, may attempt further self-liberation independent of greater spirit identification.

118:8.5 The whole principle of biologic evolution makes it impossible for primitive man to appear on the inhabited worlds with any large endowment of self-restraint. Therefore does the same creative design which purposed evolution likewise provide those external restraints of time and space, hunger and fear, which effectively circumscribe the subspiritual choice range of such uncultured creatures. As man's mind successfully overstrides increasingly difficult barriers, this same creative design has also provided for the slow accumulation of the racial heritage of painfully garnered experiential wisdom—in other words, for the maintenance of a balance between the diminishing external restraints and the augmenting internal restraints.

118:8.6 The slowness of evolution, of human cultural progress, testifies to the effectiveness of that brake—material inertia—which so efficiently operates to retard dangerous velocities of progress. Thus does time itself cushion and distribute the otherwise lethal results of premature escape from the next-encompassing barriers to human action. For when culture advances overfast, when material achievement outruns the evolution of worship-wisdom, then does civilization contain within itself the seeds of retrogression; and unless buttressed by the swift augmentation of experiential wisdom, such human societies will recede from high but premature levels of attainment, and the “dark ages” of the interregnum of wisdom will bear witness to the inexorable restoration of the imbalance between self-liberty and self-control.

118:8.7 The iniquity of Caligastia (crafty beast) was the by-passing of the time governor of progressive human liberation—the gratuitous destruction of restraining barriers, barriers which the mortal minds of those times had not experientially overridden.
UB 1955

For those interested, PAPER 118: SUPREME AND ULTIMATE—TIME AND SPACE is one of the most stimulating, and it might better to read the entire paper to understand the above within context. The papers have within their cosmic theology aspects of both 'open theism' and 'process metaphysics' as all life is an unfolding of creative evolution.....creation being an involution of consciousness in matter, an experiential adventure in space-time. Those leaning towards 'open theism' or 'process theology' may find inights in the UB of higher cosmic significance.

Since Paper 118 on time and space and how our free will interacts with divine providence is a more familiar subject than some of the fundamental concepts shared in the Foreward, perhaps shifting the discussion on matters of free will and destiny would prove inquisitive and fruitful.

The above quote is speaking on how time and space serve to cushion and condition man's progress and learning within the bounds of proper 'earning' thru the experience of learning within the framework of space-time apart from which a true learning could not be had, thru the natural process of evolution and revelation (in time). The sin of Caligastia (a fallen planetary prince) in governing mortals was to bypass the natural wisdom achieved thru experiential learning for a liberty of will having no restraints provided for by the earned attainment such spiritual wisdom. Such is the story of the Lucifer Rebellion who sought to rule mortals with an unrestrained freedom of personal free will wholly free from the sovereignty and purpose of the Father's will.

 

[TulipBee]

See: kingdom of heaven & Gospel, The Good News

You've also failed to show that 'The Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man' is a concept not found in the Bible, which is central to what the papers teach. Jesus taught us to pray to "Our Father in heaven".

Its pretty simple.....its the message that God is our father, we are his children, love God and one another. Follow? -these are 2 fundamental precepts mentioned in the Torah but further expounded upon....being the universal law of love which is the supreme law.

140:10.9 John asked Jesus, “Master, what is the kingdom of heaven?” And Jesus answered: “The kingdom of heaven consists in these three essentials: first, recognition of the fact of the sovereignty of God; second, belief in the truth of sonship with God; and third, faith in the effectiveness of the supreme human desire to do the will of God—to be like God. And this is the good news of the gospel: that by faith every mortal may have all these essentials of salvation.”

141:6.4 That night Jesus discoursed to the apostles on the new life in the kingdom. He said in part: “When you enter the kingdom, you are reborn. You cannot teach the deep things of the spirit to those who have been born only of the flesh; first see that men are born of the spirit before you seek to instruct them in the advanced ways of the spirit. Do not undertake to show men the beauties of the temple until you have first taken them into the temple. Introduce men to God and as the sons of God before you discourse on the doctrines of the fatherhood of God and the sonship of men. Do not strive with men—always be patient. It is not your kingdom; you are only ambassadors. Simply go forth proclaiming: This is the kingdom of heaven—God is your Father and you are his sons, and this good news, if you wholeheartedly believe it, is your eternal salvation.”

This is the original gospel in a nutshell presented in the papers. Is it pretty clear?

Papers vs bible
One is the failure
One is the success
Lets take a vote.

 

[freelight]

Papers vs bible
One is the failure
One is the success
Lets take a vote.

Could you show what is wrong with the information provided? Can you show what is wrong in theory and principle of the words of Jesus in the UB?

You're stuck in a false duality and exclusiveness of one book over another book, and fail to see or recognize what is being communicated which is most important. Its about the kingdom of heaven and thats realized in the recognition that God is our Father and we are his children. You need a vote to verify this truth?

Seek the truth itself, not mans vote upon it, which is what religious tradition and dogma has handed down to you.

 

[Lon]

For those interested.

Who? Who is interested. This is a "Christian" website. Why do it here? What is the 'purpose' of doing it here?

 

[Caino]

:nono: It promotes and challenges Christianity. Being a 'debate' website, you cry foul ineptly as if you "didn't sign up for that part."

Only you oddballs would complain about the purpose of a website in which you chose to participate. You get the grief you signed up for: This should continue to be both anticipated and accepted on your part. I totally accept that this thread is a slap in the face and challenge to Christianity. Don't try to hide, excuse, or otherwise obfuscate your purpose on TOL. A simply UB website all your own would forgo the 'debate' nature of this site and you all are being incredible and dishonest hypocrites to pretend the victim as if you weren't the one taking the first shot. You knew what you were doing the day you came here, don't lie, at least not to yourself. The UB seems to be purposeful lying so I understand that part of it.

:yawn: lain: You are delusional.



:yawn: Pure lying assertion, Caino. Look for any 'you are going to hell' fear-mongering from me. :nono: Again, lie all you like to me, but don't believe your own crap. You don't have that luxury. You came to TOL, the "Christian Debate" website knowing exactly what you were doing and why you were doing it. If not, your intelligence is too low for me to ever change your weak and easily duped mind (note the 'if').

I'm not complaining about the grief you and the trolls give us, I was talking about how Christianity has bullied you into closed minded intolerance. Your conceited condescension only masks the fact that we speak truths that trouble you, else you wouldn't care that we are (2) people with this one thread.

 

[freelight]

Who? Who is interested. This is a "Christian" website. Why do it here? What is the 'purpose' of doing it here?

Because this is a thread about the UB and its important insights and contributions on religious principles, concepts and ethics. If you're not interested in discussing, then leave the thread instead of trolling it.

You dont own or have a right to 'police' the forum, exclude other religious viewpoints or censore other subscribed members. If you persist in such you will be delegated to my ignore list.

Your elitist attitude is unnecessary.

 

[Lon]

Could you show what is wrong with the information provided?

Yes. First of all, just like what is familiar in the Book of Mormon, it is unnecessary AND distracting.
Second: The central message in the Bible is this: You need a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that saves.
The UB? "Be who you really are."

118:8.5 The whole principle of biologic evolution makes it impossible for primitive man to appear on the inhabited worlds with any large endowment of self-restraint...

The bible says we are created in God's image, and NOT the product of the environment.

118:8.6 The slowness of evolution ...

A denial of the sin condition as if this is all part of where we are supposed to be :nono: It is ANTI-scriptural.

118:8.7 The iniquity of Caligastia (crafty beast) was the by-passing of the time governor of progressive human liberation—the gratuitous destruction of restraining barriers, barriers which the mortal minds of those times had not experientially overridden.
UB 1955

And, as is shown, this too is against the scriptures. It merely embraces sin as 'part' of us that needs control. There is no room for barbarism in God's world. It won't have any of this and will be eliminated as wrong. 1 John 3:2 News: I NEEDED a Savior. My 'godlikeness' would have hurt people like you. I was that 1%, likely. I don't know I would have acted upon those ugly impulses, but I do know it is part of who I was and I still have to submit that to God as wrong and out of place. I can't see the use of barbarism other than in a world where it also exists in another and can be used as force to protect others.

Can you show what is wrong in theory and principle of the words of Jesus in the UB?

Yes, 'suppressing barbarism' and repenting are two different things. The central message of Jesus' words in the NT is that without Him, we can do no one thing and are in need of a Savior. The 'barbarism' of the Cross is not to be shunned. The shedding of blood is what makes a barbarian see. It was an ultimate expression that must necessarily stop man in his/her tracks and pay attention. It was necessary for God to make a statement. John 3:16 And to enact a forgiveness that reaches even that 1% in prison. An eye for an eye demands blood, it cannot erase the loss of a family member, but it does demand an equivalence. Only and ever, grace stays that demand. I am blown away when a mother forgives the one who took her child, at least to the point of asking against the death penalty. Blood is part of the gospel because of it. So, while the UB is wrong, it does give a talking point to show the correct message of the Bible.

You're stuck in a false duality and exclusiveness of one book over another book, and fail to see or recognize what is being communicated which is most important. Its about the kingdom of heaven and thats realized in the recognition that God is our Father and we are his children. You need a vote to verify this truth?

I think 'relevance' of this thread on TOL might be the point of this. We can't vote truth. We can vote relevance (my guess anyway).
As far as duality? Yep. It isn't all true. The UB gets a LOT wrong. Now, you get around that by suggesting that the BIble is wrong. This simply is not the case. You are right to call us as worshippers of the Bible simply because of Matthew 4:4. All of John 6 expresses that God's words are life. He spoke the world into existence. John 1:1 Explains that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Word. Colossians 1:17 describes Him as holding the entire universe together at this very moment. Thus, 'evolution' at best from the UB is a disregard for scriptures and a complete misunderstanding of the necessity of words in bringing life. The UB never claims this, doesn't have it. There is a huge difference between the words of God and the words of men. If we find something incredulous, it is us to us to wrestle with God. This is the difference with the UB where I am merely wrestling with men. I use the standard/word of God toward that end.

Seek the truth itself, not mans vote upon it, which is what religious tradition and dogma has handed down to you.

John 6:63 John 17:17 Spend some time in the gospel of John. Acts 4:12 No other name.

 

[Lon]

Because this is a thread about the UB and its important insights and contributions on religious principles, concepts and ethics. If you're not interested in discussing, then leave the thread instead of trolling it.

1) Debate website. Is it your intention that the UB not be challenged or debated?
2) It flies in all of it, including the underlying philosophy, against the whole of scripture as I repeatedly try to show you with scripture and again did so above.

You dont own or have a right to 'police' the forum, exclude other religious viewpoints or censore other subscribed members. If you persist in such you will be delegated to my ignore list.

Again, to avoid debate, this is your prerogative. You could probably save a LOT of grief by putting nearly all Christians on TOL who interact with you on your ignore list if such is the case. OR you could actually read for understanding. My posts are NOT trolling. Naysaying? Yes, but substantiated or able to be so.

Your elitist attitude is unnecessary.

This is your philosophy of life talking. It is against mine.

 

[Lon]

I'm not complaining about the grief you and the trolls give us, I was talking about how Christianity has bullied you into closed minded intolerance. Your conceited condescension only masks the fact that we speak truths that trouble you, else you wouldn't care that we are (2) people with this one thread.

Being right DOES look like conceit (and sometimes is and surely on TOL). Those who are right, however, will always appear conceited to those who are defiant, but aren't right.

As I've repeatedly told you, I come and go. My purpose? To share with you, when I can, the difference between Christianity and its central message and contrast it with what is wrong with the UB. Genuine concern? Yes.
1) This is a debate website. It invites debate from a uniquely Christian perspective.
2) Should we have a BoM or a Ba'Hai discussion thread? Would you expect me to 'think' it correct if I posted against them there? Would it be 'fear' they are 'right?' Being that it is a "Christian" website, wouldn't you expect a Christian to weigh in? Do you understand why a Christian would weigh in here?
3) I care that you are both wrong. It matters to me if you are corrected or correctable.

4) "If" I started a Christian thread on a Buddhist website, I'd think it'd be attended with a reasonable amount of Buddhist sentiment against it. Surely I'd be the usurper and every bit of the purposeful usurping would indeed disrupt. I'm not sure why you really don't grasp any of this. Likely, you think there is some Christian sentiment you like about hanging around us or there would be no need to bother. You, in fact, choose this interaction by choice and preference else you'd have a UB website. I've seen them. Boring? :think:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Being right DOES look like conceit (and sometimes is and surely on TOL). Those who are right, however, will always appear conceited to those who are defiant, but aren't right.

As I've repeatedly told you, I come and go. My purpose? To share with you, when I can, the difference between Christianity and its central message and contrast it with what is wrong with the UB. Genuine concern? Yes. 1) This is a debate website. It invites debate from a uniquely Christian perspective. 2) Should we have a BoM or a Ba'Hai discussion thread? Would you expect me to 'think' it right if I posted against them there? Being that it is a "Christian" website, wouldn't you expect a Christian to weigh in? Do you understand why a Christian would weigh in here? 3) I care that you are both wrong. I matters to me if you are corrected or correctable.

4) "If" I started a Christian thread on a Buddhist website, I'd think it'd be attended with a reasonable amount of Buddhist sentiment against it. Surely I'd be the usurper and every bit of the purposeful usurping would indeed disrupt. I'm not sure why you really don't grasp any of this. Likely, you think there is some Christian sentiment you like about hanging around us or there would be no need to bother. You, in fact, choose this interaction by choice and preference else you'd have a UB website. I've seen them. Boring? :think:

Good post Lon

 

[freelight]

Perogatives of choice.......

Perogatives of choice.......

Continuing from here from Paper 118 and the problems of the Lucifer Rebellion -

54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.

54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.

54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.

54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.

54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.

54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.

54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

So we see at the heart of all sin and iniquity is some gesture of self-assertion that is divorced from the good and integrity of divine will to which even angels of high rank were subject to become deceived by to their own demise.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Because this is a thread about the UB and its important insights and contributions on religious principles, concepts and ethics. If you're not interested in discussing, then leave the thread instead of trolling it.

You dont own or have a right to 'police' the forum, exclude other religious viewpoints or censore other subscribed members. If you persist in such you will be delegated to my ignore list.

Your elitist attitude is unnecessary.

Hey, Freelight, how's your little green men friends in their UFOs??

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Continuing from here from Paper 118 and the problems of the Lucifer Rebellion -



So we see at the heart of all sin and iniquity is some gesture of self-assertion that is divorced from the good and integrity of divine will to which even angels of high rank were subject to become deceived by to their own demise.

How many planets have you visited in the last year or so? Please be honest and answer honestly.