The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Caino]

If the Bible is ones foundation for facts about history then your foundation is flawed. The Bible was written, rewritten, edited and redacted by culturally and racially biased Holy men. It contains the cream of the spiritual truth of the ages it was created and recreated, but also contains layers of excuse making for the speculation of previous authors. But the UB does refer to the Bible as a superb Christian document.


"196:2.1 "Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul's religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian."UB 1955

 

[Lon]

Paul also persecuted disciples of Jesus, it was after witnessing Steven being stoned to death that he had a change of heart. These so called followers of Jesus persecute the carriers of the latest revelation of Christ and would stone us if they could.

:nono: Acts 9 was written by Luke. Your reading skills and comprehension, and/or memory are terrible and/or you've never read the Bible.

 

[Lon]

If the Bible is ones foundation for facts about history then your foundation is flawed. The Bible was written, rewritten, edited and redacted by culturally and racially biased Holy men. It contains the cream of the spiritual truth of the ages it was created and recreated, but also contains layers of excuse making for the speculation of previous authors. But the UB does refer to the Bible as a superb Christian document.

lain: As I said last post, you need to 1) actually read the Bible 2) actually comprehend what you are reading and 3) remember what you've read. You and Freelight act as if you are the ones penning some of the UB. Is that the deal? You two brainiacs trying to promote your cult you've helped make up? That's it, isn't it?

 

[Caino]

In Acts 9 Luke was recounting Paul's Damascus road conversion, not the fact that Paul witnessed Stephens stoning back when Paul himself had the same anger problems you have towards us.

The UB reveals things you didn't know by celestials who were on the scene then and have been on the earth for hundreds of thousands of years.


THE TWENTY-THIRD YEAR (A.D. 17)



128:3.1 "This year the financial pressure was slightly relaxed as four were at work. Miriam earned considerable by the sale of milk and butter; Martha had become an expert weaver. The purchase price of the repair shop was over one third paid. The situation was such that Jesus stopped work for three weeks to take Simon to Jerusalem for the Passover, and this was the longest period away from daily toil he had enjoyed since the death of his father.

128:3.2 They journeyed to Jerusalem by way of the Decapolis and through Pella, Gerasa, Philadelphia, Heshbon, and Jericho. They returned to Nazareth by the coast route, touching Lydda, Joppa, Caesarea, thence around Mount Carmel to Ptolemais and Nazareth. This trip fairly well acquainted Jesus with the whole of Palestine north of the Jerusalem district.

128:3.3 At Philadelphia Jesus and Simon became acquainted with a merchant from Damascus who developed such a great liking for the Nazareth couple that he insisted they stop with him at his Jerusalem headquarters. While Simon gave attendance at the temple, Jesus spent much of his time talking with this well-educated and much-traveled man of world affairs. This merchant owned over four thousand caravan camels; he had interests all over the Roman world and was now on his way to Rome. He proposed that Jesus come to Damascus to enter his Oriental import business, but Jesus explained that he did not feel justified in going so far away from his family just then. But on the way back home he thought much about these distant cities and the even more remote countries of the Far West and the Far East, countries he had so frequently heard spoken of by the caravan passengers and conductors.

128:3.4 Simon greatly enjoyed his visit to Jerusalem. He was duly received into the commonwealth of Israel at the Passover consecration of the new sons of the commandment. While Simon attended the Passover ceremonies, Jesus mingled with the throngs of visitors and engaged in many interesting personal conferences with numerous gentile proselytes.

128:3.5 Perhaps the most notable of all these contacts was the one with a young Hellenist named Stephen. This young man was on his first visit to Jerusalem and chanced to meet Jesus on Thursday afternoon of Passover week. While they both strolled about viewing the Asmonean palace, Jesus began the casual conversation that resulted in their becoming interested in each other, and which led to a four-hour discussion of the way of life and the true God and his worship. Stephen was tremendously impressed with what Jesus said; he never forgot his words.

128:3.6 And this was the same Stephen who subsequently became a believer in the teachings of Jesus, and whose boldness in preaching this early gospel resulted in his being stoned to death by irate Jews. Some of Stephen's extraordinary boldness in proclaiming his view of the new gospel was the direct result of this earlier interview with Jesus. But Stephen never even faintly surmised that the Galilean he had talked with some fifteen years previously was the very same person whom he later proclaimed the world's Savior, and for whom he was so soon to die, thus becoming the first martyr of the newly evolving Christian faith. When Stephen yielded up his life as the price of his attack upon the Jewish temple and its traditional practices, there stood by one named Saul, a citizen of Tarsus. And when Saul saw how this Greek could die for his faith, there were aroused in his heart those emotions which eventually led him to espouse the cause for which Stephen died; later on he became the aggressive and indomitable Paul, the philosopher, if not the sole founder, of the Christian religion." UB 1955

 

[Caino]

lain: As I said last post, you need to 1) actually read the Bible 2) actually comprehend what you are reading and 3) remember what you've read. You and Freelight act as if you are the ones penning some of the UB. Is that the deal? You two brainiacs trying to promote your cult you've helped make up? That's it, isn't it?

I've read the Bible, the holy men who wrote it were for the most part sincere in their understanding of events a well as their motives. It served a purpose and it worked.

 

[patrick jane]

I've read the Bible, the holy men who wrote it were for the most part sincere in their understanding of events a well as their motives. It served a purpose and it worked.

UB is science fiction

 

[Caino]

UB is science fiction

Even if that were true it still makes more sense than the Jews recasting of their history. That's the problem with people who are not consumed with bible worship, we can see that one must maintain a certain amount of belligerent denial concerning the mater of fact statements left in the Bible by the editors. The only thing you have is to vilify those who point it out.

SACRED AND PROFANE HISTORY

http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-97-evolution-of-the-god-concept-among-the-hebrews?criteria=SACRED AND PROFANE HISTORY#U97_8_0

 

[Lon]

In Acts 9 Luke was recounting Paul's Damascus road conversion, not the fact that Paul witnessed Stephens stoning back when Paul himself had the same anger problems you have towards us.

The UB reveals things you didn't know by celestials who were on the scene then and have been on the earth for hundreds of thousands of years.

:nono: Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!

Notice the "we" Freelight, against your painfully obviously wrong assertions. It was not, in fact, just Paul which is why Galatians speaks for all of them, and us. The UB is painfully awkward, inane and frankly childish:

Spoiler

THE TWENTY-THIRD YEAR (A.D. 17)



128:3.1 "This year the financial pressure was slightly relaxed as four were at work. Miriam earned considerable by the sale of milk and butter; Martha had become an expert weaver. The purchase price of the repair shop was over one third paid. The situation was such that Jesus stopped work for three weeks to take Simon to Jerusalem for the Passover, and this was the longest period away from daily toil he had enjoyed since the death of his father.

128:3.2 They journeyed to Jerusalem by way of the Decapolis and through Pella, Gerasa, Philadelphia, Heshbon, and Jericho. They returned to Nazareth by the coast route, touching Lydda, Joppa, Caesarea, thence around Mount Carmel to Ptolemais and Nazareth. This trip fairly well acquainted Jesus with the whole of Palestine north of the Jerusalem district.

128:3.3 At Philadelphia Jesus and Simon became acquainted with a merchant from Damascus who developed such a great liking for the Nazareth couple that he insisted they stop with him at his Jerusalem headquarters. While Simon gave attendance at the temple, Jesus spent much of his time talking with this well-educated and much-traveled man of world affairs. This merchant owned over four thousand caravan camels; he had interests all over the Roman world and was now on his way to Rome. He proposed that Jesus come to Damascus to enter his Oriental import business, but Jesus explained that he did not feel justified in going so far away from his family just then. But on the way back home he thought much about these distant cities and the even more remote countries of the Far West and the Far East, countries he had so frequently heard spoken of by the caravan passengers and conductors.

128:3.4 Simon greatly enjoyed his visit to Jerusalem. He was duly received into the commonwealth of Israel at the Passover consecration of the new sons of the commandment. While Simon attended the Passover ceremonies, Jesus mingled with the throngs of visitors and engaged in many interesting personal conferences with numerous gentile proselytes.

128:3.5 Perhaps the most notable of all these contacts was the one with a young Hellenist named Stephen. This young man was on his first visit to Jerusalem and chanced to meet Jesus on Thursday afternoon of Passover week. While they both strolled about viewing the Asmonean palace, Jesus began the casual conversation that resulted in their becoming interested in each other, and which led to a four-hour discussion of the way of life and the true God and his worship. Stephen was tremendously impressed with what Jesus said; he never forgot his words.

128:3.6 And this was the same Stephen who subsequently became a believer in the teachings of Jesus, and whose boldness in preaching this early gospel resulted in his being stoned to death by irate Jews. Some of Stephen's extraordinary boldness in proclaiming his view of the new gospel was the direct result of this earlier interview with Jesus. But Stephen never even faintly surmised that the Galilean he had talked with some fifteen years previously was the very same person whom he later proclaimed the world's Savior, and for whom he was so soon to die, thus becoming the first martyr of the newly evolving Christian faith. When Stephen yielded up his life as the price of his attack upon the Jewish temple and its traditional practices, there stood by one named Saul, a citizen of Tarsus. And when Saul saw how this Greek could die for his faith, there were aroused in his heart those emotions which eventually led him to espouse the cause for which Stephen died; later on he became the aggressive and indomitable Paul, the philosopher, if not the sole founder, of the Christian religion." UB 1955

Whoever wrote this crud was not a well-educated or smart person. As with all of it, I find a lot wrong (historically impossible). The charlatans would have benefitted from a Bible Lands and Customs course if they were going to try and make a lie plausible. This is just dumb and wrong. Again:

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Lon]

Even if that were true it still makes more sense than the Jews recasting of their history. That's the problem with people who are not consumed with bible worship, we can see that one must maintain a certain amount of belligerent denial concerning the mater of fact statements left in the Bible by the editors. The only thing you have is to vilify those who point it out.

SACRED AND PROFANE HISTORY

http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/p...s?criteria=SACRED AND PROFANE HISTORY#U97_8_0

It is sad that you are so duped that you think so

 

[Caino]

It is sad that you are so duped that you think so

I grew up in Christianity, I could see the foolishness of the Genesis accounts even as a child. I don't know why otherwise sane and apparently intelligent people with common sense don't see the Hebrews self important recasting. Especially in light of how they treated the Son of Man when he came to them. Buy a clue Lon!

 

[Caino]

:nono: Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!

Notice the "we" Freelight, against your painfully obviously wrong assertions. It was not, in fact, just Paul which is why Galatians speaks for all of them, and us. The UB is painfully awkward, inane and frankly childish:
Whoever wrote this crud was not a well-educated or smart person. As with all of it, I find a lot wrong (historically impossible). The charlatans would have benefitted from a Bible Lands and Customs course if they were going to try and make a lie plausible. This is just dumb and wrong. Again:

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

You use error as a foundation to try to show error. It is true, if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall in the pit.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I grew up in Christianity, I could see the foolishness of the Genesis accounts even as a child. I don't know why otherwise sane and apparently intelligent people with common sense don't see the Hebrews self important recasting. Especially in light of how they treated the Son of Man when he came to them. Buy a clue Lon!

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[freelight]

The real issue here..............

The real issue here..............

:nono: I've read far more than you think, while not appreciating it, just to reveal the incredible flaws and poor scholastics of it. It is terrible.

Have you read the discourses on Religion here? (follow links to each paper) - Remember, this is a discussion forum on 'Religion'.

- Can you show from these papers what is poor scholastics and is terrible in nature?

Also, can you show from the Foreward and first 5 papers on God and his relationship to the universe and individual souls....what is so terrible? See Index here

The first 5 papers are fundamental, and are do not take long to read. If you're going to belittle and demean a book, at least first educate yourself with what it actually teaches (and I'm not just talking about ninny-picking just certain sections that appear to be middle-school level grammar, but the overall religious and philosophical truth or value shared in the entire volume...that's what counts). They confirm and agree with the revelation of former religious writings, yet expand upon these to a greater dimension of total cosmic comprehension, which correlates with the further unfolding of the entire cosmology later revealed, which further expands one's vision of reality, and the divine plan of creation, its evolutionary progress, its goal of reunion with the Father and being perfected in the Spirit. - the nay-sayers here in their efforts to protect their dogmatic beliefs (as if the UB would take away anything from them) totally forget this important point.

The first paragraphs are the central theme of all creation being 'perfected' by divine love and faith in the divine will.

1:0.1 THE UNIVERSAL FATHER is the God of all creation, the First Source and Center of all things and beings. First think of God as a creator, then as a controller, and lastly as an infinite upholder. The truth about the Universal Father had begun to dawn upon mankind when the prophet said: “You, God, are alone; there is none beside you. You have created the heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their hosts; you preserve and control them. By the Sons of God were the universes made. The Creator covers himself with light as with a garment and stretches out the heavens as a curtain.” Only the concept of the Universal Father—one God in the place of many gods—enabled mortal man to comprehend the Father as divine creator and infinite controller.

1:0.2 The myriads of planetary systems were all made to be eventually inhabited by many different types of intelligent creatures, beings who could know God, receive the divine affection, and love him in return. The universe of universes is the work of God and the dwelling place of his diverse creatures. “God created the heavens and formed the earth; he established the universe and created this world not in vain; he formed it to be inhabited.”

1:0.3 The enlightened worlds all recognize and worship the Universal Father, the eternal maker and infinite upholder of all creation. The will creatures of universe upon universe have embarked upon the long, long Paradise journey, the fascinating struggle of the eternal adventure of attaining God the Father. The transcendent goal of the children of time is to find the eternal God, to comprehend the divine nature, to recognize the Universal Father. God-knowing creatures have only one supreme ambition, just one consuming desire, and that is to become, as they are in their spheres, like him as he is in his Paradise perfection of personality and in his universal sphere of righteous supremacy. From the Universal Father who inhabits eternity there has gone forth the supreme mandate, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.” In love and mercy the messengers of Paradise have carried this divine exhortation down through the ages and out through the universes, even to such lowly animal-origin creatures as the human races of Urantia.

1:0.4 This magnificent and universal injunction to strive for the attainment of the perfection of divinity is the first duty, and should be the highest ambition, of all the struggling creature creation of the God of perfection. This possibility of the attainment of divine perfection is the final and certain destiny of all man's eternal spiritual progress.

1:0.5 Urantia mortals can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness.

1:0.6 This is the true meaning of that divine command, “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect,” which ever urges mortal man onward and beckons him inward in that long and fascinating struggle for the attainment of higher and higher levels of spiritual values and true universe meanings. This sublime search for the God of universes is the supreme adventure of the inhabitants of all the worlds of time and space.

- Paper 1, The Universal Father

Here we see from the very beginning, expanding upon Jesus instruction to be "perfect even as your Heavenly Father is perfect" (in love, purity and loyalty to doing God's will)...is the motive behind all spiritual striving in the service of life and joy of one's purpose. This central theme is further confirmed in Jesus gospel of the kingdom, based on the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man, where souls realize their sonship with God thru the "new birth" of the Spirit, which we've already covered previously, which the papers teach. The universal laws and principles of true religion are wonderfully expounded thru-out the papers, since after all, they claim to be the Fifth Epochal Revelation to the planet.

On that note, any are free to read the papers for themselves if there be any ring of truth or inward testimony, to accept such or reject such. Truth itself (in meaning, value and principle) never changes, no matter where such truth is described or what format it is presented in. That might be something for you to consider, since the Bible nowhere claims to the perfect, infallible, inerrant or FINAL revelation of truth. No finite being can pin down, limit, constrain or qualify what is truly INFINITE. We judge each book within its own prescribed bounderies and cultural context, - this goes for the Bible, UB and other religious writings. As Jesus encourages,...."ask, seek and knock"....for only those who do, actually 'learn' and 'progress' in revelation and knowledge.

 

[freelight]

Ah, arent you cute.....

Ah, arent you cute.....

UB is science fiction

Can you prove that, and show in which paper it is taught, and how your statement could be true about the whole volume of 196 papers? For an example,....can you show from the first 12 papers, what is 'science fiction'? One could equally assume that "The Bible is mythology"
...and perhaps it could hold the same grain of salt. After you read the first 12 papers, (usually a basic requirement in discussing the fundamental theology of a book under examination)....get back with us. Otherwise, you just have speculation, heresay and presumption. - but hey, why not join the heretic-hunters here? the mob-mentality seems funner!

There are many wonderful spiritual books and religious writings out there,.....one is free to glean freely wherever the Spirit leads them. Only fear, superstition or just pure ignorance invokes suspicion or an apologetic stance against a new revelation or amendment of previous revelations....all based on the assumption that one has all the truth there IS. Only those who venture forth with wings of spirit, looking to the truth and wisdom that is eternal (and ever unfolding), are sure to enter heaven, which is here NOW, and is a 'condition' that follows one into eternity thru continuous transformation. That's a journey worth joining, not one locked in a dogmatic prison of a prescription-mythology, which stifles the religious imagination, intellect and human spirit.

Remember, the Spirit blows wherever it wills, and you don't see it, but you can follow its effects, and its inner illumination. Spirit alone is life.

 

[freelight]

Duped all around...............

Duped all around...............

It is sad that you are so duped that you think so

That passage of the UB makes it point, believe it or not. Possibility of 'duping' sways to any religious POV or 'belief' (take your pick),...which means you could be 'duped' as well in your 'belief' that the Bible is the only inspired text in existence,...did that ever cross your mind? But heaven forbid that! - your whole theology would be questionable or even unnecessary, and you just couldn't bear that

As the revelators of this work said towards the end of the Foreword -

0:12.13 We are fully cognizant of the difficulties of our assignment; we recognize the impossibility of fully translating the language of the concepts of divinity and eternity into the symbols of the language of the finite concepts of the mortal mind. But we know that there dwells within the human mind a fragment of God, and that there sojourns with the human soul the Spirit of Truth; and we further know that these spirit forces conspire to enable material man to grasp the reality of spiritual values and to comprehend the philosophy of universe meanings. But even more certainly we know that these spirits of the Divine Presence are able to assist man in the spiritual appropriation of all truth contributory to the enhancement of the ever-progressing reality of personal religious experience—God-consciousness.

If you have some creativity or imagination, you could at least engage this discussion on the many wonderful subjects described, and make it into a 'creative dialogue', (a 'forte' of mine I try to expand on)....but seems you'd rather just demean it as a whole, just because you find a few passages not meetings your 'scholastic' standards Note above, that the revelators speak of the 'thought-adjuster' (that fragment of God that indwells the mortal mind), a very interesting subject discussion in the papers,....at least 4 papers entirely on that subject alone.

There's certainly much more in the Universe than what your limited religious belief encapsulates. Perhaps you need to let 'God' out of that 'box' you zealously love to keep Him in.

 

[Caino]

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Paul's new gospel about Jesus being a human sacrifice for the sins of the world is defiantly foregn to the original gospel Jesus preached, but I wouldn't call it foolishness. The Jewish converts to the Jesus movement were raised on sacrifice logic, so it was difficult for them to understand receiving forgiveness from God in their hearts for free. The Pagan world already had myths about Gods coming down from heaven, blood drinking rituals etc. So Paul's new religion about Jesus seemed familiar to the Pagans.

If on our backwards, fallen world, the idea that God couldn't forgive until he saw his blameless Son dying on the cross is the best people can do then that will sufice until the original gospel if the kingdom of heaven is again preached to the world.

 

[Lon]

... you could be 'duped' as well in your 'belief' ...did that ever cross your mind?

EVERY religion but one is man trying to interpret God. If He has not given us one, then all of us are duped. There is but and ONLY one way out of such a dilemma, that God must intervene.

Your problem: You do not believe you are separated from God at birth, therefore, you look inward for the answer and this is your man-fit answer.

My problem: I believe God is a being. A being who created me and so I have His stamp BUT I knew from young, that something was wrong with that stamp, it was broken and I felt shame when hurting my siblings or parent. Embracing a part that 'ideally' isn't broken is noble, but yet settling for unusable along with what may be in some semblance of order. A car being rebuilt may have a running engine but that's not the whole car. Likewise, we need a complete overhaul, not a bandaid. The New Testament is about a complete salvation, not making do or shooting for inane glory as a lawn ornament. Your answer lies in Jesus Christ and you UBers run after doctrines that tickle ears. The bad news IS that the car must be scrapped or completely stripped and made-over. We must become new creations.

The good news is, a denial of self, self-interest, self-preservation, self-identity that is misplaced nostalgia and self-love, will result in a better you. 2 Corinthians 5:20 I entreat you to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ.

But heaven forbid that! - your whole theology would be questionable or even unnecessary, and you just couldn't bear that

You are the one following a guy that couldn't get out of bed and lay there making stuff up. You are the one following a bunch of people who then met in an apartment and typed up what sounded best to them. It is the BoM and the golden plates all over again.

The one I follow is God-made-flesh. Both the UB and the BoM is the flesh trying to be God and trying to live after a philosophy but with the same broken vessel. I'll say it again: If God did not come to you and I, we are hopelessly following others who 'feel' enlightened but are simply plodding away in the dark coming up with a few 'light-bulb' moments that in the end, are inconsequential. Again: 2 Corinthians 5:20 Be reconciled to God John 14:6 There is only one way.

As the revelators of this work said towards the end of the Foreword -

If you have some creativity or imagination, you could at least engage this discussion on the many wonderful subjects described, and make it into a 'creative dialogue', (a 'forte' of mine I try to expand on)....but seems you'd rather just demean it as a whole, just because you find a few passages not meetings your 'scholastic' standards Note above, that the revelators speak of the 'thought-adjuster' (that fragment of God that indwells the mortal mind), a very interesting subject discussion in the papers,....at least 4 papers entirely on that subject alone.

There's certainly much more in the Universe than what your limited religious belief encapsulates. Perhaps you need to let 'God' out of that 'box' you zealously love to keep Him in.

:nono: Not a revelation, but simply and yet another human attempt to reach God among many such attempts. The ONLY salvation would be from God reaching man, and this nor the BoM nor any other man-made religion can ever work. Our history means we are incapable even after a plethora of 'enlightened' attempts. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only one that 'can' be effectual. All other contenders simply fall far far short. You and Caino won't get this, so duped are your thoughts, but there is no desire for anything else. Aren't your guesses into my doubt simply a reflection of your own troubled minds and trying to convince yourself of a doubtful truth? I'm resolute which may be beyond your ken to understand. There is no other hope Acts 4:12

Galatians 1:6a I marvel that you are so easily duped (are so simple-minded)!!!
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from Heaven preach a gospel to you other than what we preached to you, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, If anyone preaches a gospel to you beside what you have received, let him be accursed!
Galatians 1:10 For now do I persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Galatians 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which was preached by me, that it is not according to man.
Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Lon]

I grew up in Christianity, I could see the foolishness of the Genesis accounts even as a child.

1 Corinthians 13:11:think: What was it? The Ark? As an adult I've managed to account just fine for anything found in Genesis. That doesn't mean I have all the answers, just that I can live with things I may not grasp until I can ask about them.
It is not cognitive dissonance. You can ask if you've a mind to, or keep embracing your thoughts, you thought as a child :noway:

I don't know why otherwise sane and apparently intelligent people with common sense don't see the Hebrews self important recasting. Especially in light of how they treated the Son of Man when he came to them. Buy a clue Lon!

Our contrasting worldview: You see everything as the product of the Universe. It makes god, a thing in which even God and Jesus Christ are also its product. This is the same with Eastern Religion and Mormons as well as the UB. It is merely a religion of 'what I can see and make out.' It is man-made and man-focused.
Me, I see the universe as the product of God, that everything comes from Him, that He is a being, and He is separate from His creation. Because God is Spirit, nothing can contain Him, and the physical universe is apart from Him.
Because I also knew something was 'wrong' with me, that I did hurtful things to other and even took perverse pleasure in an awkward child-sense of 'justice,' I knew that I didn't fit the ideal. Having an ideal also meant that something apart from me was it.
Hearing the gospel at a young age made sense. As I've gotten older, I've had to face 1 Corinthians 13:11 once more to see if what I needed as a child was the same as I needed as an adult.
The test: 1) If what I believe is true, you'd expect to see Christ's stamp on me, my life, and others around me. Either God approves of my faith, or I'm a magician - I'm not a magician. 2) Other Christians verify that these miracles happen, that God saves through Jesus Christ, and that I am logically and rationally apprehending the gospel and scriptures. 3) That I am indwelled by the living God, that He is counselling me regarding truth and error 4) That the expectations I find in scripture, are actually happening in my life, confirming the truth of them 5) that I am re-made this way and therefore it fits whether another understands or comprehends this or not.
You seem to have always been an outsider looking in, Caino, both you and Freelight.

 

[Lon]

Paul's new gospel about Jesus being a human sacrifice for the sins of the world is defiantly foregn to the original gospel Jesus preached, but I wouldn't call it foolishness. The Jewish converts to the Jesus movement were raised on sacrifice logic, so it was difficult for them to understand receiving forgiveness from God in their hearts for free. The Pagan world already had myths about Gods coming down from heaven, blood drinking rituals etc. So Paul's new religion about Jesus seemed familiar to the Pagans.

If on our backwards, fallen world, the idea that God couldn't forgive until he saw his blameless Son dying on the cross is the best people can do then that will sufice until the original gospel if the kingdom of heaven is again preached to the world.

:doh: Matthew 16²¹ From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
John 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while and the world does not see Me any more. But you see Me. Because I live, you shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

I really wish you knew scripture instead of just parroting a useless rant-ing book.

 

[Caino]

:doh: Matthew 16²¹ From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
John 14:17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while and the world does not see Me any more. But you see Me. Because I live, you shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

I really wish you knew scripture instead of just parroting a useless rant-ing book.

I do know scripture, maybe it's you who are just parroting what you have been told to think about the scripture and the cross? Jesus talked privately with his disciples about what he must do, about the requirements of the incarnate mission, he was to live the full life and death of his own co-created beings. He did that. He was triumphant in life and in death. He never connected Gods forgiveness with the cross, in the original gospel God was already forgiving and by personal responsibility and faith, not a substitute. Christians just do that in their minds because that is Peter and Paul's new gospel. In fact the one thing Jesus said to his enemies directly about the cross was it would prove his authority to teach. In modern terms he basically said "kill my body and in three days I will resurrect myself from the dead". He did, it has nothing to do with the Father forging sin. That is the old Pagan interpretation.

None of the quotes you provided from scripture has Jesus saying he was to die as a sacrifice for sin. You and other Christians just assume that Jesus meant he was a sacrifice.

In his Love for us Jesus Christ came down from his glory on high to live the human life, he lived for the positive cause of salvation, revelation of the Father. He didn't die for the negative cause of sin. Eventually the original gospel of the kingdom will be preached and eventually subdue the world. In that way Jesus will take away the sin of the world; real personal and world wide transformation.


The confusion in Christianity and in some respects the New Testament books is that the writing of the NT was done for the most part, after Paul's interpretations and teachings about the meaning of Jesus had begun to dominate, and not without controversy among some of the original apostles and other leading disciples. The version of Jesus that Christianity gets is mainly through Paul's view, however some fragments remain of the original gospel.