ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David

[Interplanner]

Not only is there nothing affirming the land promise in the NT, there is nothing affirming it to be forever, because at the end of time, this earth is changed into the NHNE in rather elemental rearrangement. Now that the teaching of the NT has come, and the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st centur, I don't think the OT prophets were talking another go in Judea, but about the NHNE, which is actually where Isaiah ends up.

 

[God's Truth]

You reject what the LORD has revealed to the houses of Israel and Judahconcering what willhappen to those houses in the future because you have no place for those things in your made-up eschatology. You just flat out refuse to believe God about the destiny of those two houses. however, it is those who "believe God" who are justified in His sight:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

If I were you I would worry less about your man-made eschatology and begin to actually believe the LORD, especially what He says about the destinty of the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

You just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper!

It is unbelievable how you dismiss Christ coming the first time as some kind of failure and that he would come back to try it again is absurd to say the least.

Jesus coming the first time was the plan for salvation before the world was created.

 

[God's Truth]

GT even though I believe differently to you I know that no-one can be saved without our Lord Jesus Christ.

So I'm wondering, how do those who believe that the Jews who are physical descents of Abraham will be saved, if they don't believe in the trinity (which they say is essential)and they don't believe that Jesus is the son of God.

I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, so let me know.

The Jews, as all people, have to come to Jesus in belief and in repentance of their sins.

Whether or not someone fully understands that Jesus is God Himself does not seem to be a reason to condemn someone to hell.

What Jerry and others like him do not seem to understand is that if they are wrong about Jesus being God the Father come as a Son, then they have condemned themselves, for with the way one judges it will be measured to them.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is unbelievable how you dismiss Christ coming the first time as some kind of failure...

I challenge you to quote me where I ever said that!

Are you denying that when He returns then He will sit upon His throne and begin to rule over the whole world?:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Do you deny that these events will take place in the future?

 

[marhig]

I am not sure that I understand what you are saying, so let me know.

The Jews, as all people, have to come to Jesus in belief and in repentance of their sins.

Whether or not someone fully understands that Jesus is God Himself does not seem to be a reason to condemn someone to hell.

What Jerry and others like him do not seem to understand is that if they are wrong about Jesus being God the Father come as a Son, then they have condemned themselves, for with the way one judges it will be measured to them.

Ok, I'm not getting into the trinity or Jesus being God here. Because I've been told not to.

So what I'm trying to say is, Jerry and others here believe that we must believe in the trinity to be saved, and many of us me included believe that we must believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Now I'm asking Him, or others who believe as he does, how will the physical descents of Abraham be saved if they don't believe in Christ Jesus and that he is the son of God, or if they don't believe in the trinity. (Which Jerry and others say is essential to believe to be saved)

So in a nutshell, how will the physical descendants of Abraham be saved if they don't believe in Jesus Christ and they don't believe in the trinity (which according to them is a must)

 

[God's Truth]

I challenge you to quote me where I ever said that!

You ALWAYS say that to me! You just do not recognize what you say and what it actually implies.

Tell me now why Jesus would come yet again to live on this earth and THEN Jews get the chance to be saved after rejecting him before he came?! Every time I go through a deep discussion with you, you end up taking off not being able to defend yourself.

We are to be ready. Don't you understand why we have to be ready before he comes? He is not coming to bear sins. If you are not already forgiven before he comes then how are you going to be saved after he comes? We are warned to be ready because it will be too late by then.

Are you denying that when He returns then He will sit upon His throne and begin to rule over the whole world?:

Jesus is ruling over the whole world NOW.


Ephesians 1:21
far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.


When Jesus comes again, it will be on a throne in the sky on the clouds from heaven. That will be the Great White Throne Judgment, the resurrection. He will raise some to eternal life and others to eternal condemnation.

 

[God's Truth]

Ok, I'm not getting into the trinity or Jesus being God here. Because I've been told not to.

So what I'm trying to say is, Jerry and others here believe that we must believe in the trinity to be saved, and many of us me included believe that we must believe that Jesus is the son of God.

Now I'm asking Him, or others who believe as he does, how will the physical descents of Abraham be saved if they don't believe in Christ Jesus and that he is the son of God, or if they don't believe in the trinity. (Which Jerry and others say is essential to believe to be saved)

So in a nutshell, how will the physical descendants of Abraham be saved if they don't believe in Jesus Christ and they don't believe in the trinity (which according to them is a must)

I have asked that question before myself. The answer that I received is that the Jews will at that time just end up believing the truth.

 

[marhig]

I have asked that question before myself. The answer that I received is that the Jews will at that time just end up believing the truth.

Wow talk about saying anything to make their beliefs work!

John 14

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No belief in Jesus Christ, then no way to come to the father, he is the only way.

 

[God's Truth]

Wow talk about saying anything to make their beliefs work!

John 14

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No belief in Jesus Christ, then no way to come to the father, he is the only way.

I think you misread what I said. I said they say that the Jews will just start believing in Jesus...and that after animal sacrifices, can you believe that? As if Jesus is going to come again and sit in an earthly temple and have animal sacrifices brought to the temple is ludicrous.

 

[Interplanner]

Wow talk about saying anything to make their beliefs work!

John 14

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No belief in Jesus Christ, then no way to come to the father, he is the only way.

More to the point: what does 'all' mean in this (their) scenario? Does every Jew who ever lived get separately resurrected and believes the Gospel of Christ, and that places them in their land? Not likely. So what does 'all' mean?

 

[God's Truth]

It is unbelievable how you dismiss Christ coming the first time as some kind of failure and that he would come back to try it again is absurd to say the least.

Jesus coming the first time was the plan for salvation before the world was created.

Jerry Shugart needs to explain why Jesus would come again and how this second chance for the Jews does not equal a failure on God's part the first time?!!

 

[marhig]

I think you misread what I said. I said they say that the Jews will just start believing in Jesus...and that after animal sacrifices, can you believe that? As if Jesus is going to come again and sit in an earthly temple and have animal sacrifices brought to the temple is ludicrous.

Sorry, yes I knew that you meant that it's what they believe. And yes it's not the truth. Jesus isn't coming back to a natural temple with animal sacrifices.

And, he is already back in a temple, a temple not built by the hand of man but by the living God and we are to present our bodies to be a living sacrifice, holy as acceptable to God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus is ruling over the whole world NOW.

Then tell me when these things happened:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

 

[marhig]

Then tell me when these things happened:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Jerry don't you believe that the Spirit of Christ is within?

 

[Interplanner]

Jerry don't you believe that the Spirit of Christ is within?

Or, what does it mean for things to be true 'in Christ' because...these things are true in Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Then tell me when these things happened:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

That is when Jesus comes again!

That is about the GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT TIME. That is the resurrection of the dead when the wicked will be raised and judged to go to eternal condemnation, and the saved will be raised to eternal life.

You say when Jesus comes again he will live on this earth and wait for the Jews who rejected him to change their mind.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Jesus is the Branch and is reigning now.

I gave you scripture that tells us Jesus is reigning now and I can give you more, but one scripture should suffice!

 

[beloved57]

The Land Promise to the Fathers is Heavenly Heb 11:16

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[Danoh]

The Land Promise to the Fathers is Heavenly Heb 11:16

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Psalms 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

[northwye]

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." Romans 2: 28-29

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Revelation 3: 9

If, as Christian Zionists teach, the Old Covenant still exists, because they teach that God now has two peoples, Israel, by which they always mean Israel of the flesh, by the bloodline, alongside
the Capital C Church, why not obey Genesis 17: 10-12,of the Old Covenant, as do some in the Messianic movement, and become physically circumcised as a religious ritual, rather than "circumcised" in the heart by the Spirit?

 

[beloved57]

Psalms 89:29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

John 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Matthew 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 1:12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Lol the land promise is spiritual/heavenly.

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