Interplanner
Well-known member
It is not singular, it is accumulative. You would know this if you knew Greek. The language is: what(ever) was promised to the fathers...
Why else do you think those in Judaism pounded on Paul afterwards?
ECT The Land Promise the LORD Gave To David
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
It is not singular, it is accumulative. You would know this if you knew Greek. The language is: what(ever) was promised to the fathers...
Why else do you think those in Judaism pounded on Paul afterwards?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
All you have to do is read & believe.
Acts 13
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Quit making up stuff.
Acts 13
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
One singular promise, of raising up The Savior.
Do you not realize that you can make your "The Greek" say anything you want it to say?
The context is clear. Stop being satanic.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up. Hath God said?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Hebrews 11:16King James Version (KJV)
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
God's Truth
New member
I have already explained all that to you and I have already proven what you said. You are acting like I haven’t and that IS DISHONEST.
Notice that you refuse to answer how the Jews will get saved AFTER Jesus comes?
Only a person who does not know the truth avoids it the way you do.
If they are NOT SAVED then they either have NOT ALREADY HEARD about Jesus---which is highly unlikely---or they have REJECTED HIM! You are the one who says the Jews will not be saved until Jesus comes again.
Yeah I see you know the tactic.
What a joke.
God's Truth
New member
The prophecies in the Old Testament were NOT just about the Gentiles, but ALL NATIONS.
Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.
Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.
Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."
John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!
1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
GT, the Gentiles ARE THE Nations.
Compare the above passages with these that follow, from Romans 15.
(Scripture IN LIGHT OF Scripture - NOT - Scripture THROUGH one's OWN ideas)...
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
The Prophecies that mention the Gentiles - plural - are referring to Non -Israelite Nations.
Some more...
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels. 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
God's Truth
New member
Nations are ALL nations! Nations are NOT all except Jews! The scriptures do NOT say that.
In Acts 2:5 we see that there were JEWS from EVERY NATION. The Jews are the people God said that He would speak to through men of strange tongues...
Acts 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
Do you really think the Psalms, and Isaiah, and Samuel are EXCLUDING the Jews from the great promises?
Lol - talk about "another; which is not another" - you'd be good at that Acrobatic Rock n Roll Lindy Hop dancing of the 1950's - it's amazing how easily you're able to quickly hurl yourself high into the air of your conclusions to come up with one more twist and turn hybrid :chuckle:
1,2,3,4,5 O'Clock a rock, lol
God's Truth
New member
You claim the nations were not about the Jews, scripture proves you wrong.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Righto, please see Jer 32:20. God had been at work--doing signs and wonders--in all nations, both in Israel and the others.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Whatever was promised is not singular. The land was a shadow and copy of what was above, just like the tabernacle/temple.
Whatever is accumulative.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is: v33 hoti tautan ho theos ekpeplaroken... The things which God promised...
But there is more. The 'proof' scripture is not from Genesis or any passage where the Law speaks of a promise (like in the 10 commands about obeying parents). The proof or support is Ps 2: You are My Son, today I have become your Father'--the resurrection enthronement, as planned in the past, Jn 17:5, 24. They had an agreement that if the Son lived a perfect Adamic life, he would be given the authority to vanquish human death and would burst forth from death. So THAT gift is what Israel was waiting for, not some crass land promise. Paul is excited, ecstatic that it has come about. He is never that way about the land.
TEV: what God promised our ancestors...
NIV: What God promised our fathers...
Complete Jewish Bible: what God promised our fathers...
When taken with those that say, the promise God made to our fathers, it has to be accumulative or definitive that this is what "it" meant.
God's Truth
New member
Excellent scripture, thanks!
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
The context is clear, you are wrong, and making up things.
Interplanner
Well-known member
So let's see, now the New Butchered Version of Hebrews contains:
1, some verses Christians can enjoy
2, some verses only Jewish Christians can enjoy (but the list is secret knowledge to RD, STP, JohnW, Tam etc)
3, some verses only Gentile Christians can " " " " "
4, some verses that are on PERMANENT IGNORE. One of these is the critical 8:5 (Ex 25:40) because it is the vital link to Col 2:17 (dealing with neo-Judaism there) and of course to Gal 4:1-19 in which 'Christ formed in you (plural)' means the child-trainer 'Christ' for the age of childhood is gone and the real Christ here here.
If the land promise is no swallowed up by what happened through the resurrection, why doesn't Paul mention something essential about the land somewhere, sometime? If it was 'off the record' in Acts 13, what is the heat of the conflict?
I notice you have not answered what is the conflict between Christian Gospel faith and Judaism in that other thread. You just post giggles and huhs because the whole thing is just trivial to you.
The emphasis upon the land promise (II Samuel 7: 8, 10) by Christian Zionists is a way of "proving" that its fulfillment was in the Balfour Declaration made to the Zionist Federation of England and Northern Ireland. The Balfour Declaration was a statement of British policy in support of "a National Home for the Jewish people," in Palestine which, in 1948, became the Jewish state.
One reason why the British elite expressed a support for Zionism - to make Palestine into a home for the Jews - was because they thought this endorsement would help gain Jewish support in several countries for the Allied cause in fighting Germany in World War I. The elites usually have more than one reason for their policies.
On http://educate-yourself.org/cn/johncolemangoalsofIlluminati.shtml John Coleman, former British Intelligence agent,. in 1993 wrote that one goal of the British elite - the Anglo-American elite - was "To engineer and bring about the destruction of religion, and more especially, the Christian Religion, with the one exception, their own creation, as mentioned..." Coleman said the elite's goal was "To continue to build up the cult of Christian Fundamentalism begun by the British East India Company's servant Darby, which will be misused to strengthen the Zionist State of Israel by identifying with the Jews through the myth of "God's chosen people", and by donating very substantial amounts of money to what they mistakenly believe is a religious cause in the furtherance of Christianity."
This is interesting. The British East India Company, a corporation, played a large role in British Colonialism and in the creation of the British Empire, which existed during World War I and also in part during World War II. The British Empire can be seen as being the Lion beast empire of Daniel 7: 4, the first of four beast empires which are post-Cross empires. Coleman thought that John Darby and what was first called dispensationalism was used by the British East India Company for their purposes, while the elite wanted to diminish other forms of Christianity, perhaps Biblical Christianity. And again, Coleman's saying this is interesting.
Anglo-American elite policy has long been in favor of Zionism and especially American foreign policy has supported the nation of Israel in the Middle East since it began in 1948 during the Truman administration. The ruling elite of England and and the U.S. has long been made up of the top financial and corporate elite, which includes some powerful bankers (the Rothschild family for example )who are Zionists, a fact which is not just conspiracy theory.
The British-American elite could very well have thought that Biblical Christianity was less supportive of the elite's goal of a one world government than Christian Zionism. This would be especially true after the elite began to co-opt Transformational Marxism, which is systematically anti-Christian. The elite's use of "refugees" from nations with large radical Islamic populations makes this more clear, that the ruling elite tends to be anti-Christian. Coleman did say that the goal of the elite was to diminish Christianity, except for the theology of Darby, who Coleman suggested was the "servant" of the British East India Company.
An emphasis upon the land promise to David in the Old Testament as being a prophecy of the establishment of the Jewish state in Palestine in 1948 helps to legitimize the doctrine of dispensationalismn - later Christian Zionism - that Israel in the Middle East is literally Old Covenant Israel restored and not a phony Israel. Israel in the New Covenant period is the Israel redeemed in Christ of Luke 1: 68-69, the spiritual house in I Peter 2: 5 and the chosen generation,royal priesthood, holy nation (or people) and peculiar people of I Peter 2: 9. Israel in the New Covenant is also seen in Galatians 6: 15-16 as the new creatures in Christ Jesus and the Israel of God,as contrasted to the children of the flesh of the bloodline who are not the children of God in Romans 9: 8.
One reason why the British elite expressed a support for Zionism - to make Palestine into a home for the Jews - was because they thought this endorsement would help gain Jewish support in several countries for the Allied cause in fighting Germany in World War I. The elites usually have more than one reason for their policies.
On http://educate-yourself.org/cn/johncolemangoalsofIlluminati.shtml John Coleman, former British Intelligence agent,. in 1993 wrote that one goal of the British elite - the Anglo-American elite - was "To engineer and bring about the destruction of religion, and more especially, the Christian Religion, with the one exception, their own creation, as mentioned..." Coleman said the elite's goal was "To continue to build up the cult of Christian Fundamentalism begun by the British East India Company's servant Darby, which will be misused to strengthen the Zionist State of Israel by identifying with the Jews through the myth of "God's chosen people", and by donating very substantial amounts of money to what they mistakenly believe is a religious cause in the furtherance of Christianity."
This is interesting. The British East India Company, a corporation, played a large role in British Colonialism and in the creation of the British Empire, which existed during World War I and also in part during World War II. The British Empire can be seen as being the Lion beast empire of Daniel 7: 4, the first of four beast empires which are post-Cross empires. Coleman thought that John Darby and what was first called dispensationalism was used by the British East India Company for their purposes, while the elite wanted to diminish other forms of Christianity, perhaps Biblical Christianity. And again, Coleman's saying this is interesting.
Anglo-American elite policy has long been in favor of Zionism and especially American foreign policy has supported the nation of Israel in the Middle East since it began in 1948 during the Truman administration. The ruling elite of England and and the U.S. has long been made up of the top financial and corporate elite, which includes some powerful bankers (the Rothschild family for example )who are Zionists, a fact which is not just conspiracy theory.
The British-American elite could very well have thought that Biblical Christianity was less supportive of the elite's goal of a one world government than Christian Zionism. This would be especially true after the elite began to co-opt Transformational Marxism, which is systematically anti-Christian. The elite's use of "refugees" from nations with large radical Islamic populations makes this more clear, that the ruling elite tends to be anti-Christian. Coleman did say that the goal of the elite was to diminish Christianity, except for the theology of Darby, who Coleman suggested was the "servant" of the British East India Company.
An emphasis upon the land promise to David in the Old Testament as being a prophecy of the establishment of the Jewish state in Palestine in 1948 helps to legitimize the doctrine of dispensationalismn - later Christian Zionism - that Israel in the Middle East is literally Old Covenant Israel restored and not a phony Israel. Israel in the New Covenant period is the Israel redeemed in Christ of Luke 1: 68-69, the spiritual house in I Peter 2: 5 and the chosen generation,royal priesthood, holy nation (or people) and peculiar people of I Peter 2: 9. Israel in the New Covenant is also seen in Galatians 6: 15-16 as the new creatures in Christ Jesus and the Israel of God,as contrasted to the children of the flesh of the bloodline who are not the children of God in Romans 9: 8.
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