The Importance of Believing that Jesus Atoned for the Sins of the World
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
j4jesus09
New member
I definetly feel like I identify with the man that just cries out. But, why am I that man what caused me to become that man? God seen fit to create a path for me to come to my senses and cry out. If it was up to me in my unrepentant lifestyle and that path I wanted to take it wouldn't have been to cry out to God or repent. God chooses us before we choose him. God is Holy!
Rubbish to B57's previous post.
One reference to the theology of atonement is the verse that says Jesus was offered as a "ransom for many."
Most traditional Christians have absolutely no idea of what is meant by this phrase.
No, it has nothing to do with blood atonement. The Greek word for "ransom" is lutron. It has nothing to do with atoms and molecules. It is a word to describe the payment meant to release a person from captivity.
Now we can easily reframe this to our own modern sensibilities by asserting that Jesus death liberates us from the prison of sin. But this would be adding to the text and if we are going to believe this interpretation we need to be honest about how we are using it.
"Ransom for many" does not refer to a blood sacrifice for sin. But it can certainly be interpreted that way. In fact, that's what we Christians often do. We try to stretch or extract a meaning from the Bible that will make sense for US .
Most traditional Christians have absolutely no idea of what is meant by this phrase.
No, it has nothing to do with blood atonement. The Greek word for "ransom" is lutron. It has nothing to do with atoms and molecules. It is a word to describe the payment meant to release a person from captivity.
Now we can easily reframe this to our own modern sensibilities by asserting that Jesus death liberates us from the prison of sin. But this would be adding to the text and if we are going to believe this interpretation we need to be honest about how we are using it.
"Ransom for many" does not refer to a blood sacrifice for sin. But it can certainly be interpreted that way. In fact, that's what we Christians often do. We try to stretch or extract a meaning from the Bible that will make sense for US .
I believe that many try to extract a meaning from the Bible that supports their religion or their doctrine. There is much scrpiture twisting going on, on this Forum.
M
Man.0
Guest
Are you amongst those Scripture-twisters?
No, I teach the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
What is your Gospel?
M
Man.0
Guest
So you're a teacher, are you?
'Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.' (James 3:1)
Are you amongst the few who should be teachers?
What do you know? Yet you see yourself as a teacher and presume to teach others. Could it be that you teach false things? Are you a teacher in the eyes of God? Have you been prepared and qualified by Him, to teach?
I'm not a teacher or preacher, but if I was, the gospel (meaning 'good news') that I would preach is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of salvation; the good news of universal reconciliation to God.
'But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them' 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
Is it true that you yourself teach, and preach, a false gospel?
'But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel other than what we have preached to you, a curse be on him!' (Galatians 1:8)
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Acts 10:43
Acts 10:43
Why will you not directly address Peter's words here?:
If all men's sins are already remitted or expiated then how is it possible for those who believe to have their sins expiated since they have already been expiated?
In other words, how can a believer's sins be taken away if their are no sins to be taken away?
Please give me your interpretation of the meaning of Peter's words at Acts 10:43.
Acts 10:43
Why will you not directly address Peter's words here?:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
If all men's sins are already remitted or expiated then how is it possible for those who believe to have their sins expiated since they have already been expiated?
In other words, how can a believer's sins be taken away if their are no sins to be taken away?
Please give me your interpretation of the meaning of Peter's words at Acts 10:43.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Why not you explain Acts 10:43 ? You bought it up!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I already have! Why don't you pay attention?
beloved57
Well-known member
No you haven't, what you stated the verse doesn't read that way !
All that have come to Christ as repentant sinners are sealed with the Holy Spirit and are "In Christ". Their sins have been forgiven.
God sees them as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.
In God's eyes Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished because of Christ, Colossians 2:15. If there was one sin that was not atoned for Jesus would not be in heaven.
But not all are "In Christ". Many are still dead in tresspasses and sins. They have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:3.
Even though God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ we must still enter into the faith, Acts 10:43 means that all that believe have entered into the faith and have had their sins remitted.
I don't fully understand how God has dealt with the sins of the world, but I believe that he has. Jesus claims to be the savior of the world, John 12:47.
If you are preaching a Gospel that does not justify the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and does not reconcile you and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then you have the wrong Gospel.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You say that their sins have been remitted or expiated.
However, Peter makes it plain that only those who 'believe" have their sins remitted or expiated:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).
Your ideas about unbelievers having their sins expiated is easily shown to be in error. Those who do not believe will die in their sins, as witnessed by the following words of the Lord Jesus:
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:24).
How can anyone die in their sins if those sins have already been been expiated?
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beloved57
Well-known member
Unscriptural Comments!
M
Man.0
Guest
Says Robert Pate - the one who defines what the gospel is.
The Bible defines what the Gospel is, not me.
Paul said that the Gospel, "Is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16.
That is everyone that believes the Gospel.
To believe the Gospel is to believe that Jesus has defeated and has overcome the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
Daniel1611
New member
Robert, we are in the minority. If you don't believe people were ever saved by works and you don't believe on 100 ways to be saved in the Bible, you are in the minority on TOL. Thankfully, I haven't met many Christians in person who claim to believe in different ways to be saved. It was faith alone from Adam onward. Period.