Interplanner
Well-known member
About which the NT cares not. It will all be consumed and reformed into the NHNE. That is what the last things the prophets were saying was about, not another episode of Judaism in Judea.
ECT The House of Israel and the House of Judah Will Be a Blessing
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
About which the NT cares not. It will all be consumed and reformed into the NHNE. That is what the last things the prophets were saying was about, not another episode of Judaism in Judea.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If we are to believe that "astonishment" is the correct translation in this verse then you are even more weird than I imagined:
"Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Astonishment: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married" (Isa.62:5).
Who can take you seriously?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
If the land which the Lord gave Jacob is consumed then it will not even exist anymore.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's why it is bigger than that. Why does Paul say the whole promise was about the world to come in Rom 4? Why not Judea?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Romans 4 will be searched in vain for that.
beloved57
Well-known member
You calling scripture wrong. Rom 9:8 says that Israel according to the flesh are not the children of God.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That is not what you said. Here is what you said:
Again, Paul was a physical descendant of Abraham and he is a child of God (Ro.8:16).
I am not calling Scripture wrong but I am saying that you are wrong!
beloved57
Well-known member
The physical descendant of Abraham Israel are not the children of God Rom 9:8
Interplanner
Well-known member
Paul definitely called gentile believers seed of Abraham because they were that 'in Christ.' The whole range of Christian truth is that which is true 'in Christ' not in ethnicity or background. Male and female don't even matter for 'in Christ.'
beloved57
Well-known member
Agreed!
TweetyBird
New member
Words often mean different things dependent on context. The Hebrew can be defined as desolate and forsaken and astonished.
The companion verses to Isa 62 are found in Isaiah 52 and 53 - the greatest book of the OT on prophecy concerning our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
It was you who said that the meaning of the verse in regard to Isaiah 62:5 was astonished:
So when we put the meaning which you yourself chose we get this ridiculous translation:
"Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Astonishment: but thou shalt be called Hephzi-bah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married" (Isa.62:5).
Your ideas are laughable!
Interplanner
Well-known member
It was to be a great day for the land, but that became true in Christ as the NT says about all promises. It was the believers who would be able to enjoy it, but the unbelievers would go through a wretched period. Not that the land matters, but it is a way of saying to them that they will have a good impact.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The NT does not say that all of the Lord's promises have been fulfilled. Anyone in their right mind KNOWS that this prophecy concerning the "land" which the Lord gave to Jacob has not been fulfilled:
"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have...Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Ez.37:25-27).
Here we read that the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the Israelites for ever. And the Israelites "shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob.." Therefore, in the future the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the children of Israel for evermore at the time they will dwell in the land that God gave to Jacob.
TweetyBird
New member
I don't see the problem. Jesus was made desolate when He said He was forsaken by His Father. Forsaken, is to be made desolate. The word, astonishment falls nicely in the prophesies concerning the suffering of Christ on the cross - this is why I quoted Psa 22, Isa 52 and 53. All three words are interconnected.
Jesus is the Sanctuary. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
beloved57
Well-known member
Israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8!
Right Divider
Body part
Agreed; anyone in their right mind.
TweetyBird
New member
The Sanctuary is the Temple. Jesus is that Temple - not made with hands. The physical temple no longer exists because Jesus took its place. The pattern of the Heavenly, which is Christ, was made into an earthly temple/tabernacle made with hands for a time and a season. It is gone now, forever. There is no need for it. It accomplished its purpose. We have Jesus who completely reigns and rules in His children, the High Priest of the order of Melchizedek - forever, not of Aaron/Levi. He is the sacrifice, has shed His own blood for sin, sprinkled the mercy seat with His own blood in the Heavenlies. This is all recorded in Heb 4-9.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The following prophecy shows the Lord Jesus returning, and when He returns there will indeed exist a rebuilt temple:
"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple...And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years" (Mal.3:1,3,4).
This was not fulfilled when the Lord Jesus walked the earth because at that time there was never an occasion when the "offering of Judah and Jerusalem" was pleasant unto the Lord as in "the days of old, and as in former years".
This prophecy will be fulfilled in the future. Since you have no place for its fulfillment in your eschatology you will pervert what is said.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you don't!
Anyone who can trick their mind into believing that the land which the Lord gave to Jacob is in heaven will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!