The Historical Jesus Never Existed

[quip]

The short of it: Don't listen to gossip and never believe it. Exodus 23:1 Proverbs 16:28 Proverbs 26:20 1 Timothy 5:13 Titus 3:1-3

 

[daqq]

I'm astounded! He touches on Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 in this video which are the same exact passages Lon and I were debating in the Trinity thread just before Lon wigged out and succeeded in getting me removed from the thread. Anyway he appears to read the Mark and Luke passages in the same way I was attempting to explain to Lon and another person in that thread; but unfortunately in that section of the video the sound quality was not so good, (I replayed it three times and am still not sure about something he said right at the end of those comments). He appears to read both passages in the way that Yeshua says many will come in his name claiming that he IS, or that he EXISTS, or that he is "I AM", and that is exactly what Christianity does: they are the many who come in the name of Yeshua, (Jesus), proclaiming that he is "I AM", Almighty God.

PS -- Turned it way up, yep, 4:00 minute mark through 4:30 he does read those passages in that way and concludes something like, "the very fact that he exists, was the intent", (of those passages). Though I do not go that far it is still just a slight variation on what the passages actually do say, (which Christian scholars mangle in their interpretations so as to uphold their version of John 8:58 and not have their own three fingers pointing back at themselves).

 

[Lon]

Shadow Of The Third Century Revaluation of Christianity by Alvin Boyd Kuhn pretty much exposes the Lonites as ignorant veil wearers more loyal to their dogma than truth.

Quaint. 20 centuries of nothing, then 'suddenly!' :dizzy: Quaint. Convenient. More-than-questionable.

All the world are Lonites. Just a few less-than's

 

[Lon]

I'm astounded!

Easily amused?

He touches on Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 in this video which are the same exact passages Lon and I were debating in the Trinity thread just before Lon wigged out and succeeded in getting me removed from the thread.

Well, had I known your theology was in bed with atheism, I'd have left you to your own devices much sooner :noway:

illustrating the meaning of given scripture

Your intent?

 

[daqq]

Easily amused?

He's telling you the same thing I tried to tell you from the Testimony of Messiah in the actual Gospel accounts but apparently you reject the Testimony of Messiah in favor of the testimonies of your favorite church fathers.

Well, had I known your theology was in bed with atheism, I'd have left you to your own devices much sooner :noway:

Please provide proof for your false accusation. If that is what you understood from what I have said in this thread then you either choose to willfully misrepresent what others say for your own benefit or you have no reading comprehension whatsoever. When you joined up with a Oneness believer in the other recent thread you did worse than anything you have seen from me here in that regard. Do you not think it is hypocritical for you to gang up with people who preach that Jesus and the Father are the same person while here you accuse me of being in bed with atheism when it is not even true?

All the world are Lonites. Just a few less-than's

That is one of the great misunderstandings of the Calvinist mindset, that is, that everyone else is the same as they are themselves. It is not true, Lon, everyone else is not like yourself. The very reason why Calvinism appeals to the average Calvinist is a psychological one, that is, the doctrine of total depravity; and that is because if one is totally depraved and can do nothing about it then he or she delights to hear that the rest of the world is exactly the same, totally depraved. But as a man thinks, so he is. And most of even mainstream Christianity is full of people with truly genuine hearts, well meaning, and they are not totally depraved. And for the same reason even the mainstream is perplexed at such a doctrine, and most find it revolting, just as they do the extreme version of predestination that Calvinists hold to. All the world are not Lonites.

 

[Lon]

https://youtu.be/D5AvrYB2Y_4

Koine Greek forgetting vocabulary isn't important and Strongs is good enough? :nono: Blowing smoke.
Is this you, Zeke? I'll listen more if its you. If not, I'm not going to over-invest my time.
5:40 he's going on and on about a Hebrew OT and their problem with KJV, so Hebrews talking about a Christian translation. Why? Because they are Jewish and distancing.
8:00 Blide leading the blind? Okay, opinions, everyone has one.

https://youtu.be/MwYUC_J2Kt0

The second video is likely the 4th, 8th or something. He makes a lot of claims not in the first video. I listen to it but frankly, only because of my concern for you, Zeke.
Realize he's talking about the Orthodox church (different than orthodox ("accepted truth") of all churches. It tells you a bit of his background and the school he attended.
The guy believes in an 'actual' Lord Jesus Christ, though.

Realize this is an age old heresy called doecetism. This guy is a doecetist. 1,2,3 John speak against this way before the rest of the church weighed in on this. I think you'd be well served reading these books of the bible and meditating when John says 'they' (doecetism).

 

[Lon]

He's telling you the same thing I tried to tell you from the Testimony of Messiah in the actual Gospel accounts but apparently you reject the Testimony of Messiah in favor of the testimonies of your favorite church fathers.

Listening further, he's not as much an atheist as spreading Docetism. So, I prefer the church fathers and scriptures to that which the scriptures speak against. You liking him? Yet another reason to keep you on ignore (you can have the last word after this, I'm keeping you there, given the distance unbridgeable between us). "Christ didn't exist." He says. He's anti-historical Christ, but that's not conveyed well. Not really a good place for Docetism to start as it comes across as atheist. One heresy is the same as another however, leading away from God and His scriptures.

Please provide proof for your false accusation. If that is what you understood from what I have said in this thread then you either choose to willfully misrepresent what others say for your own benefit or you have no reading comprehension whatsoever. When you joined up with a Oneness believer in the other recent thread you did worse than anything you have seen from me here in that regard. Do you not think it is hypocritical for you to gang up with people who preach that Jesus and the Father are the same person while here you accuse me of being in bed with atheism when it is not even true?

As I said above, Docetism, which denies He came in the flesh. It is a form of atheism denying His existence coming in the flesh.

I am as much against Modalism as I am against Tritheist and Unitarian theology. I have a bit more sympathy for the modalist but they need to realize that Father and Son are distinct. They believe both/He are/is God.

That is one of the great misunderstandings of the Calvinist mindset, that is, that everyone else is the same as they are themselves. It is not true, Lon, everyone else is not like yourself.

You are jumping to conclusions. Zeke penned 'Lonites.' I was only trying to get him to understand that all Christians are Triune but for a very few (too few). Such is 'exclusionary' theology worse than even hyperCalvinism (I'm not that kind of Calvinist). I believe nonCalvinist Christians belong to Jesus Christ.

The very reason why Calvinism appeals to the average Calvinist is a psychological one, that is, the doctrine of total depravity; and that is because if one is totally depraved and can do nothing about it then he or she delights to hear that the rest of the world is exactly the same, totally depraved. But as a man thinks, so he is. And most of even mainstream Christianity is full of people with truly genuine hearts, well meaning, and they are not totally depraved. And for the same reason even the mainstream is perplexed at such a doctrine, and most find it revolting, just as they do the extreme version of predestination that Calvinists hold to. All the world are not Lonites.

You need to let Calvinism go as standby attack. I am a Calvinist. I'm not like all Calvinists. I believe John 3:16 means 'world' for instance.

 

[Zeke]

He's telling you the same thing I tried to tell you from the Testimony of Messiah in the actual Gospel accounts but apparently you reject the Testimony of Messiah in favor of the testimonies of your favorite church fathers.



Please provide proof for your false accusation. If that is what you understood from what I have said in this thread then you either choose to willfully misrepresent what others say for your own benefit or you have no reading comprehension whatsoever. When you joined up with a Oneness believer in the other recent thread you did worse than anything you have seen from me here in that regard. Do you not think it is hypocritical for you to gang up with people who preach that Jesus and the Father are the same person while here you accuse me of being in bed with atheism when it is not even true?



That is one of the great misunderstandings of the Calvinist mindset, that is, that everyone else is the same as they are themselves. It is not true, Lon, everyone else is not like yourself. The very reason why Calvinism appeals to the average Calvinist is a psychological one, that is, the doctrine of total depravity; and that is because if one is totally depraved and can do nothing about it then he or she delights to hear that the rest of the world is exactly the same, totally depraved. But as a man thinks, so he is. And most of even mainstream Christianity is full of people with truly genuine hearts, well meaning, and they are not totally depraved. And for the same reason even the mainstream is perplexed at such a doctrine, and most find it revolting, just as they do the extreme version of predestination that Calvinists hold to. All the world are not Lonites.

I would agree that most are good, genuine and well meaning yet fall prey to the religious system that overrides their common sense, official sounding scholars assure them all is true and tried with a factual foundation, yet they have to use scare tactic's and lies to keep the herd from investigating the period for them self. Lon is a prime example of religious bigotry that has infected many a good heart, enslaved to a theological brainwashing that degrades the Love of our Creator as some ego maniac that needs to kill to be appeased,a perverted god that demands loyalty and as we see he gets it from his perverted followers.

 

[daqq]

Listening further, he's not as much an atheist as spreading Docetism. So, I prefer the church fathers and scriptures to that which the scriptures speak against. You liking him? Yet another reason to keep you on ignore (you can have the last word after this, I'm keeping you there, given the distance unbridgeable between us). "Christ didn't exist." He says. He's anti-historical Christ, but that's not conveyed well. Not really a good place for Docetism to start as it comes across as atheist. One heresy is the same as another however, leading away from God and His scriptures.

Yet again you missed the point: he is reading from the Greek of Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 in the same way I was explaining it in the other thread to you just before you fell out of your rocker. I would go back there and bring the quotes here but I cannot get into that thread anymore because you got me banned from it seeing how with your extremely superior IQ you were still not able to defend your arguments and had to resort to throat slitting. As for putting me on ignore isn't this about the third time now? :rotfl:

 

[daqq]

I would agree that most are good, genuine and well meaning yet fall prey to the religious system that overrides their common sense, official sounding scholars assure them all is true and tried with a factual foundation, yet they have to use scare tactic's and lies to keep the herd from investigating the period for them self. Lon is a prime example of religious bigotry that has infected many a good heart, enslaved to a theological brainwashing that degrades the Love of our Creator as some ego maniac that needs to kill to be appeased,a perverted god that demands loyalty and as we see he gets it from his perverted followers.

Yeah, I did not say the majority are right but I have no doubt that most are truly genuine.

 

[Zeke]

Yet again you missed the point: he is reading from the Greek of Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:8 in the same way I was explaining it in the other thread to you just before you fell out of your rocker. I would go back there and bring the quotes here but I cannot get into that thread anymore because you got me banned from it seeing how with your extremely superior IQ you were still not able to defend your arguments and had to resort to throat slitting. As for putting me on ignore isn't this about the third time now? :rotfl:

Told ya Lon was cry baby who runs to the mods.

 

[Zeke]

 

[daqq]

Told ya Lon was cry baby who runs to the mods.

Yes! I remember too; just before everything went black! Even your timing was impeccable! :crackup:

 

[Zeke]

 

[Zeke]

 

[freelight]

The word expressing within matter..........

The word expressing within matter..........

Koine Greek forgetting vocabulary isn't important and Strongs is good enough? :nono: Blowing smoke.
Is this you, Zeke? I'll listen more if its you. If not, I'm not going to over-invest my time.
5:40 he's going on and on about a Hebrew OT and their problem with KJV, so Hebrews talking about a Christian translation. Why? Because they are Jewish and distancing.
8:00 Blide leading the blind? Okay, opinions, everyone has one.
The second video is likely the 4th, 8th or something. He makes a lot of claims not in the first video. I listen to it but frankly, only because of my concern for you, Zeke.
Realize he's talking about the Orthodox church (different than orthodox ("accepted truth") of all churches. It tells you a bit of his background and the school he attended.
The guy believes in an 'actual' Lord Jesus Christ, though.

Realize this is an age old heresy called doecetism. This guy is a doecetist. 1,2,3 John speak against this way before the rest of the church weighed in on this. I think you'd be well served reading these books of the bible and meditating when John says 'they' (doecetism).

I've watched the videos, and may have listened to another while back. I'm not sure your charge of 'Docetism' applies here, since hes interpreting the passage of Jesus Christ coming in the flesh as the universal 'Christ' or 'logos' coming into the flesh-body or 'soul' of human beings, so it appears hes referring to the more universal cosmic Christ-spirit or 'logos-principle',...the divine spark or spirit of God that enlightens every man that comes into the world. This doesn't necessarily imply that Jesus the Man who appeared at some point in history was a phantom or just an ethereal form as some Gnostics believed, but hes meaning the 'logos' that indwells the human soul, being the Christ within, the hope of glory. Paul further speaks of Christ being formed in us, and that Jesus Christ is in us. Now how this relates to the the gospel-story or myth of Jesus is that such a story orchestrates and expresses the divine spirit working in Man (in Jesus and all mankind). Now if Jesus was an actual historical figure or pure myth (or mixture thereof, create your own theology), it is still the 'logos' of 'God' indwelling the soul, the Christ within. So, either way,....Jesus is the first archetypal Man who embodied 'God' and was anointed with the 'logos', the 'Christ'....and is the prototype (head or leader) of all other souls who follow his WAY, into divine sonship with the Father.

This is the essential revelation of Jesus Christ figuratively speaking, no matter if you believe Jesus was a historical figure or merely a mythical figure serving as the model to convey the truth of 'Immanuel'.

 

[Lon]

Spoiler

I've watched the videos, and may have listened to another while back. I'm not sure your charge of 'Docetism' applies here, since

hes interpreting the passage of Jesus Christ coming in the flesh as the universal 'Christ' or 'logos' coming into the flesh-body or 'soul' of human beings, so it appears hes referring to the more universal cosmic Christ-spirit or 'logos-principle',...the divine spark or spirit of God that enlightens every man that comes into the world.

Spoiler

This doesn't necessarily imply that Jesus the Man who appeared at some point in history was a phantom or just an ethereal form as some Gnostics believed, but hes meaning the 'logos' that indwells the human soul, being the Christ within, the hope of glory. Paul further speaks of Christ being formed in us, and that Jesus Christ is in us. Now how this relates to the the gospel-story or myth of Jesus is that such a story orchestrates and expresses the divine spirit working in Man (in Jesus and all mankind). Now if Jesus was an actual historical figure or pure myth (or mixture thereof, create your own theology), it is still the 'logos' of 'God' indwelling the soul, the Christ within. So, either way,....Jesus is the first archetypal Man who embodied 'God' and was anointed with the 'logos', the 'Christ'....and is the prototype (head or leader) of all other souls who follow his WAY, into divine sonship with the Father.

lain: That's Docetism.

This is the essential revelation of Jesus Christ figuratively speaking, no matter if you believe Jesus was a historical figure or merely a mythical figure serving as the model to convey the truth of 'Immanuel'.

Your esoteric version is also a form of Docetism. As already challenged, read 1,2,3 John It only takes 15 minutes or less for all of them.

 

[daqq]

I've watched the videos, and may have listened to another while back. I'm not sure your charge of 'Docetism' applies here, since hes interpreting the passage of Jesus Christ coming in the flesh as the universal 'Christ' or 'logos' coming into the flesh-body or 'soul' of human beings, so it appears hes referring to the more universal cosmic Christ-spirit or 'logos-principle',...the divine spark or spirit of God that enlightens every man that comes into the world. This doesn't necessarily imply that Jesus the Man who appeared at some point in history was a phantom or just an ethereal form as some Gnostics believed, but hes meaning the 'logos' that indwells the human soul, being the Christ within, the hope of glory. Paul further speaks of Christ being formed in us, and that Jesus Christ is in us. Now how this relates to the the gospel-story or myth of Jesus is that such a story orchestrates and expresses the divine spirit working in Man (in Jesus and all mankind). Now if Jesus was an actual historical figure or pure myth (or mixture thereof, create your own theology), it is still the 'logos' of 'God' indwelling the soul, the Christ within. So, either way,....Jesus is the first archetypal Man who embodied 'God' and was anointed with the 'logos', the 'Christ'....and is the prototype (head or leader) of all other souls who follow his WAY, into divine sonship with the Father.

This is the essential revelation of Jesus Christ figuratively speaking, no matter if you believe Jesus was a historical figure or merely a mythical figure serving as the model to convey the truth of 'Immanuel'.

The old man has to be cut off, that is, beheaded, in the End, but the end is the new beginning, (and the one born from above then receives a white stone of approval with a new name having been written therein which only he himself knows). The man Yeshua was therefore an historical figure in my own understanding, however, that was not always his name. It is like how Yaakob received a new name when he wrestled not with flesh and blood but with an Elohim-Angel, and the Messenger gave him his own name, Yisrael, (the prototokos-firstborn). So likewise there is Yeshua the man and Yeshua the Son of Elohim who descended from the heavens in the somatiko-corporeal-bodily form of a dove and abode-remained upon the Immerser throughout the remainder of his ministry. When one is truly born from above the old man is cut off and the son born into the kingdom of Elohim receives a new name. Yohanan was the half of the kingdom. This is shown by the words of Herod when he quotes Ahasuerus from the book of Esther in Mark 6:23, (it is an allegory). So those who worship a historical Jesus as the Almighty God-Man are actually worshiping the Immerser after he was born from above, imo, but I suppose that is happens when you abolish the Torah and start a whole new religion based solely on "love", (disconnected from the scripture meaning of love), and some new creeds.

 

[quip]

Your intent?

Just showcasing your technique in maintaining your christian bubble.

Quite the cutie...don't you think?

 

[Lon]

The man Jesus Christ is mentioned in secular history books.

The man Jesus Christ's existence is verified by agnostic scholars.

There is a general dismissal across-board of any contention to the existence of the Historical Jesus that it is summarily trash-binned or met with scathing reprimand, even from skeptic and agnostic scholars as worthless.