turbosixx
New member
So are you saying the Corinthians were NOT water baptized at their conversion?
ECT The Gospel Proper
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So are you saying the Corinthians were NOT water baptized at their conversion?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Says you. If the Church's authentic pastors the bishops don't have the authority to "take care of the Church of God," then who does?
You?
turbosixx
New member
So are you saying the Corinthians, when Paul and others baptized them, it was a dry baptism? They were not covered by water?
turbosixx
New member
1 Pt. 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
Peter tells us in his next letter Paul also wrote to these "priests"
2 Pt. 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
Is Christ divided? Paul telling them (?) one thing and telling others (BOC) something different?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
The Catholic bishops do not forbid marriage to anybody. Anybody who wants to marry can seek marriage, and the Church celebrates all valid marriages.
Requiring men who feel called to the clergy to be single, does not equal "forbidding to marry." Forbidding to marry means forbidding to marry, something that the bishops have never done, not once. They all know the same warnings about forbidding to marry that you do. And as I said, there have been different heretical sects who have actually forbidden marriage, and it is against these people that Paul's warnings very clearly apply.
They do not forbid to marry. The Church has been blessed for centuries, with enough single men to be pastors, which is entirely in keeping with 1st Corinthians 7:32-33 KJV.
I agree with you, if the bishops were doing that, and they're not doing that. The bishops do not forbid marriage to anybody; anybody who wants to marry, may, and is encouraged to, seek marriage.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
:chuckle: And you know that, because you are a faithful student of Scripture, King John, that bishops were created through the imposition of the Apostles' own hands, and then they were instructed to create new bishops themselves, through the imposition of their (these bishops) hands. This imposition of hands is the physical connection that all bishops today have with the Apostles, who instituted the Church office of Bishop, as shown in the New Testament. iow, we cannot just make ourselves or someone we respect, admire, and like---like you---a bishop. There's a standard procedure for that already, which was put into place by the Apostles, Paul included. It's Holy Orders, the imposition of hands.
But you already knew that!
Right Divider
Body part
You're wrong about that.
Don't believe the truth if you like. That's your choice.
You force your BELIEF ABOUT "conversion" to drive your "understanding" of scripture.
Let scripture speak for itself instead and there might be a chance of you actually understanding it.
Right Divider
Body part
Peter is speaking to the twelve tribes (strangers) scattered abroad (1 Peter 1:1) AMONG the gentiles, just like James. He is QUOTING scripture about THEM.
1Pe 2:9-12 KJV But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: (10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (11) Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
CONTEXT is KEY, but you ignore it.
Peter is QUOTING Exodus 19
Exo 19:4-7 KJV Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. (5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (7) And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
:rotfl:
Your "idea" of what "Christ divided" means is whacked.
Except they are forbidden (with exceptions, and exceptions prove the rule) to marry:
| Council of Elvira (c. 305) (Canon 33): It is decided that marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry, and that they keep away from their wives and not beget children; whoever does this shall be deprived of the honor of the clerical office. |
| Council of Carthage (390) (Canon 3): It is fitting that the holy bishops and priests of God as well as the Levites, i.e. those who are in the service of the divine sacraments, observe perfect continence, so that they may obtain in all simplicity what they are asking from God; what the Apostles taught and what antiquity itself observed, let us also endeavour to keep.… It pleases us all that bishop, priest and deacon, guardians of purity, abstain from conjugal intercourse with their wives, so that those who serve at the altar may keep a perfect chastity. |
VS.
| Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband.But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife? . . . Now concerning virgins: I have no commandment from the Lord; yet I give judgment as one whom the Lord in His mercy has made trustworthy.I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress— that it is good for a man to remain as he is:Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife.But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none,those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess,and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord.But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife.There is a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband.And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction.But if any man thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, if she is past the flower of youth, and thus it must be, let him do what he wishes. He does not sin; let them marry.Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin, does well.So then he who gives her in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better.A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment—and I think I also have the Spirit of God. - 1 Corinthians 7:1-16,25-40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians7:1-16,25-40&version=NKJV |
| This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence(for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless.Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. - 1 Timothy 3:1-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Timothy3:1-13&version=NKJV |
RCC: Bishops, priests, and deacons are prohibited from being married, are to keep away from their wives, and are not allowed to have children.
Paul: If a man wants to be a leader, and is not married, well. If a man wants to be a leader, and is married, well. If a man is a leader, and is not married, well. If a man is a leader, and is married, well. If he is married, he should be the husband of one wife, and rules his house well. If he is married, he is less likely to be tempted through his lack of self-control
You: The RCC and Paul agree with one another.
:dunce:
They clearly do not agree with one another, and to say otherwise is willful ignorance.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Deacons are typically married men, and no married man is prohibited from engaging in the marital act. And priests and bishops have no wives to "keep away from." And of course since they are single, they are prohibited from having children, along with everyone else who is single.
Which means they have broken the law set up by the Church, that says "marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry."
This is why Paul warns against believers putting oneself under ANY law, because once you do, you MUST KEEP THE LAW!
What part of "marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry" do you not understand?
"Marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry" means that NONE OF THEM should be married, so they're even breaking their own rules!
BECAUSE:
"marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry"
BECAUSE:
"marriage be altogether prohibited to bishops, priests, and deacons, or to all clerics placed in the ministry"
WHICH IS A RESULT OF THE PROHIBITION ON LEADERSHIP MARRYING!
Seriously, Idolater, do you not understand what "prohibit" means? It means that something has been disallowed!
Paul says that forbidding anyone (INCLUDING THE CHURCH LEADERSHIP) to marry means one has departed the faith, and not only that, doing so contravenes God's command of "be fruitful and multiply" and "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife."
The church says "NO! If you want to be a bishop/priest/deacon you must be single." Yet they make exceptions for individuals.
And again, EXCEPTIONS prove the RULE.
If the church did not prohibit marriage for its leaders, then there would be plenty more married men in leadership roles.
GOD DOES NOT PROHIBIT MARRIAGE FOR LEADERS. PAUL DOES NOT PROHIBIT MARRIAGE FOR LEADERS. THE APOSTLES DO NOT PROHIBIT MARRIAGE FOR LEADERS.
So WHY does the church prohibit leaders from MARRYING!?
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Where are you reading this word "anyone?" I can't find it. If you can point it out to me, then you may have a point.
Well duh.
1st Corinthians 7:32-33 KJV
It's implied. Or, at the very least, there is no specification on who it applies to, therefore it applies equally to everyone.
That's because it's implied, not explicit. I thought you would have recognized that instead of nitpicking.
I have a point regardless.
:AMR:
Let's look at it.
But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord.But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. - 1 Corinthians 7:32-33 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians7:32-33&version=NKJV
Question for you, Idolater.
Do all unmarried men care for the things of the Lord?
Or do they sometimes also care for the things of the world?
Does a married man ONLY care for the things of the world, how he may please his wife? Or do married men sometimes also care for the things of the Lord?
In other words, is what Paul says ALWAYS TRUE in EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE?
No, of course not.
What Paul is saying is a general rule of thumb.
NEITHER of those verses undo what Paul says just a few verses earlier in the chapter:
| Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. - 1 Corinthians 7:2-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians7:2-9&version=NKJV |
And
| I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress— that it is good for a man to remain as he is:Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife.But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. - 1 Corinthians 7:26-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians7:26-28&version=NKJV |
Fraud, as no scripture teaches this fake "priest" system, of Romanism, or celibacy for these fraud, child abusers, or celibacy, for this fraud "papa," "pope" satanic, made up system, to keep the Catholic drones, in bondage.
Yes, you fraud, and fellow members of the boc, as we/I are/am the church, in this dispensation, not this made up bunch of clowns, in clown outfits, you Romans parade out there in public, these "Cardinals," in their top hats, colorful, made up, sickly garments, robes, ....these Monsignor".... con artists, like you.
Nice change the subject deceiver. You asserted in 1 Cor. 10:2 KJV:
That's slick...real slick.
Tell all of TOL why you lied-the Israelites were on dry ground-the Egyptians were covered in water, and I gave you chapter, verse.
Tel all of TOL why you lied, and continue to lie?
Rosenritter
New member
http://exposing-catholicism.blogspot.com/2013/03/pagan-origin-of-catholic-clergy-celibacy.html
https://www.britannica.com/topic/celibacy#ref67993
http://www.catholica.com.au/gc2/occ2/055_occ2_print.php
1 Cor 7:32 isn't in the context of describing bishops, elders, or deacons. It seems more likely that it was derived from the pagan and Gnostic traditions, especially considering that no such restriction was ever created for the Levites.
No, you lied again:
1 Peter 1 KJV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,...
Thief, robber, stealing others's mail-that is not addressed to members of the boc.
Tell all of TOL why you lie, and steal.
In Exodus 19:5-6 KJV, at the very giving of the Mosaic Covenant, the LORD-God's purpose in giving birth to the nation Israel is unveiled. The LORD God's stated purpose concerning the nation Israel is that she is to be "a kingdom of priests and an holy nation," through whom the Gentile nations will draw nigh to God, i.e., the "channel/instrument" of blessing. Service....witnesses....Survey Isiah:
"But YE SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD: MEN SHALL CALL YOU THE MINISTERS OF OUR GOD." Isaiah 61:6 KJV.
This will be fulfilled, occur, realized during the kingdom reign of the Lord Jesus Christ, on earth, when Israel is dwelling in her land and the nations find salvation and blessing through her instrumentality-priest, ministers, witnesses..... This also explains Zech. 8:23 KJV-Israel will be a nation of priests, the channel instrument, for blessings to the world, in the prophetic program:
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
All of this awaits Israel's future redemption-including physical. The "If ye will obey...then ye shall be" principle of the law assured that this "knowledge of sin" would be everywhere. However, Israel's failure, the nation Israel soon found herself in need of a Saviour, a redeemer, to restore that which was lost, buy them back. Their kinsman redeemer. Thus while the hope of Israel looked to the promised coming kingdom,under which the physical and spiritual benefits of the New Covenant will be realized, in their fullness, the need of the nation for "through the water cleansing" was first needed.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?116370-The-Bible-is-a-book-of-details-contrasts
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Address your error regarding "THE cloud."
For there "THE cloud" is, within their midst, long AFTER that incident at the Red Sea - during their FORTY YEARS in...the DESSERT.
You ALWAYS pull that - you attempt to prove some point of yours through an error YOU clearly read INTO something else, only to DEFLECT when your ERROR is pointed out to you.
Given that I do NOT believe you are up to no good, that leaves one thing. The one thing you OFTEN prove in MANY of your posts - that you are simply not as skilled at getting the actually intended meaning of a word, phrase, and or passage as you THINK you are.
And that you tend to lose sight of a thing, when you're too focused on some other.
Of course, that does not mean I view you as dumb. Rather, as NOT as skilled at that as you apparantly think you are.
And no, I am NOT talking about arrogance, on your part, rather, about a person's tendency, to conclude they always know how to do what they are doing, properly.
Then again, you are one of VERY few on here able to take such a criticism. I'll give you that.
Adress the error I pointed out. And then, at the very least, read Deuteronomy.
THEN I'll address you on this water baptism myopia of yours.
You need to get the big picture. And the Law and the Prophets is as much a part of said big picture as both the NT, and Paul's writings (Romans thru Philemon) are.
How do I know?
Isaiah 8:20, and 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 tell me so.
Rom. 5:6-8.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Wrong, I know HOW people become Christians. I know how all are saved in this age of Grace. I'm not the one who is stuck in some time warp trying to made something work that was never meant for anyone living today.
1 Cor. 4:14-15 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
We are begotten by the Gospel, and preaching the Gospel of Grace is what we do. That is what Paul preached. Some of us plant and others water. Some of us teach and others shepherd young believers. To spend your time arguing about water baptism is counterproductive to sharing the ONE Gospel that saves. And Paul agrees with me.
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