ECT The Gospel Preached at Pentecost

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Jerry's question is completely and dishonestly 'loaded' with the biases of 2P2P.
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According to your idea the Apostles were preaching a gospel which declared that Christ was going to die for our sins from town to town and then later every single one of them just forgot that He was going to die. Sir Robert Anderson describes you perfectly when he says this:

"In no other sphere save that of religion do men of intelligence and culture willingly subject their minds to delusions. The historic Church once tried to compel belief that this planet was the fixed centre of the solar system; but who believes it now? Men cannot be made to believe that water runs uphill, or that five and five make anything but ten. In no other sphere can they be induced to stultify reason and common sense. But in religion there seems to be no limit to their credulity" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], 61).​

I hope that they treat you well in your padded cell!
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
Yes, and you are drinking too much wine and you refuse to take off you rose colored glasses.
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So we agree on what they were sent out to teach. That it was clear sailing for the nation because the kingdom was being offered to Israel.


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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
According to your idea the Apostles were preaching a gospel which declared that Christ was going to die for our sins from town to town and then later every single one of them just forgot that He was going to die. Sir Robert Anderson describes you perfectly when he says this:

"In no other sphere save that of religion do men of intelligence and culture willingly subject their minds to delusions. The historic Church once tried to compel belief that this planet was the fixed centre of the solar system; but who believes it now? Men cannot be made to believe that water runs uphill, or that five and five make anything but ten. In no other sphere can they be induced to stultify reason and common sense. But in religion there seems to be no limit to their credulity" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], 61).​

I hope that they treat you well in your padded cell!
Click to expand...




Nice quote Jerry, but it applies to you.

You have to do some research on the manifestation of denial. (That's not a passage in DANIEL, it is the psychology of DENIAL.) It may help to go through Jn 6 again. Why would they say v60? I mean, what is going on here? This is not that far into the ministry, and they obviously know he is going to die, and that his death is sacrificial, in spite of all the 2P2P blather you throw up.

Then we have v64, in which some of "them" (DISCIPLES!!!) do NOT believe. They believe Judaism, but they do not yet believe the Gospel. Do you now see why they might say 'the cross is not going to happen.'

v66 is even more devastating to your theory. Mass desertion. About the Gospel, THE ONE GOSPEL, of the sacrifice of Christ. 2P2P is ALWAYS a fraud.

Back to v62, because you are always intersted in the enthronement. So what if they see that? THEY WOULD you know!!! Would they also like 2P2P deny that THAT was the enthronement David foresaw? 2P2P does every day!

Then there is 7:1. This is so early. It's rough going, conflicting with Judaism. THAT is what explains the kind of vociferous denial Peter had and the collective blank during the 2nd half of the ministry.

So I hope you can see you need to totally start over, and forget the elegant quotes from theologians about other things and take care of the mud all over your front door and walkway.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Nice quote Jerry, but it applies to you.

You have to do some research on the manifestation of denial. (That's not a passage in DANIEL, it is the psychology of DENIAL.) It may help to go through Jn 6 again. Why would they say v60? I mean, what is going on here? This is not that far into the ministry, and they obviously know he is going to die, and that his death is sacrificial, in spite of all the 2P2P blather you throw up.

Then we have v64, in which some of "them" (DISCIPLES!!!) do NOT believe. They believe Judaism, but they do not yet believe the Gospel. Do you now see why they might say 'the cross is not going to happen.'

v66 is even more devastating to your theory. Mass desertion. About the Gospel, THE ONE GOSPEL, of the sacrifice of Christ. 2P2P is ALWAYS a fraud.

Back to v62, because you are always intersted in the enthronement. So what if they see that? THEY WOULD you know!!! Would they also like 2P2P deny that THAT was the enthronement David foresaw? 2P2P does every day!

Then there is 7:1. This is so early. It's rough going, conflicting with Judaism. THAT is what explains the kind of vociferous denial Peter had and the collective blank during the 2nd half of the ministry.

So I hope you can see you need to totally start over, and forget the elegant quotes from theologians about other things and take care of the mud all over your front door and walkway.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:

Poor IP
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
The new covenant is based on redemption; man realizing what redemption accomplished that by his embracing it is the new covenant established within him.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
IP, TOL's resident amateur Psychologist, explains how the disciples' denial was so severe that they began to develop amnesia. :chuckle:
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
It may help to go through Jn 6 again. Why would they say v60? I mean, what is going on here? This is not that far into the ministry, and they obviously know he is going to die, and that his death is sacrificial, in spite of all the 2P2P blather you throw up.
Click to expand...

There is nothing said there about His death. The Lord Jesus was using figurative language when speaking about how one receives eternal life (Jn.6:54) by His flesh and He cleared up His message just a little later when He said this:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

If He was using the words about eating His flesh to refer to His death He sure would not say later that "the flesh profiteth nothing."

As usual, you are trying to defend your idea that the Apostles went to all the towns preaching a gospel which says that Christ would die for sins even though they did not even know that he was going to die!

Who can take you seriously/
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
So then we see the disciples proclaiming the message of John the Baptist that the kingdom was at hand. But how did JB know that the Lamb of God was going to take away the sins of the world?

Why don't you think about it this way Jerry my son, JB was a prophet. He had received direct revelation from God. The 12 disciples were not prophets they were mere students.


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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
There is nothing said there about His death. The Lord Jesus was using figurative language when speaking about how one receives eternal life (Jn.6:54) by His flesh and He cleared up His message just a little later when He said this:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

If He was using the words about eating His flesh to refer to His death He sure would not say later that "the flesh profiteth nothing."

As usual, you are trying to defend your idea that the Apostles went to all the towns preaching a gospel which says that Christ would die for sins even though they did not even know that he was going to die!

Who can take you seriously/
Click to expand...



that is ridiculous Jerry. The point was it was so much like that they would be eating and drinking him. You're really infected. 2P2P is every bit the crock I had guessed.

'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world'--the Baptiser. How do you take away sins in the Levitical system? By putting the lamb in a circus?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
intojoy said:
So then we see the disciples proclaiming the message of John the Baptist that the kingdom was at hand. But how did JB know that the Lamb of God was going to take away the sins of the world?

Why don't you think about it this way Jerry my son, JB was a prophet. He had received direct revelation from God. The 12 disciples were not prophets they were mere students.

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" (Jn.1:29).​

Sir Robert Anderson writes that "This is not translation merely, it savours of exegesis. 'Who beareth the sin of the world' is what the Baptist said. His words were not a prophecy of what Christ would accomplish by His death, but a statement of what He was in His life. Mark the present tense, 'Who is bearing'. And while the word used in 1 Peter 2:24, and in kindred passages, is a sacrificial term, we have here an ordinary word for lifting and carrying burdens. When the Lord sighed in healing the deaf mute by the Sea of Galilee Mark 7:34, and when He groaned and wept at the grave of Lazarus, He took upon Himself, as it were, the infirmities and sorrows which He relieved, and made them His own" (Anderson, Types in Hebrews, [Kregel Publications, 1978], p.52).

I am still waiting to hear your idea in regard to what "gospel" the Twelve were preaching at Luke 9:6 since at that time they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was to die.
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