The Gospel of the Kingdom and the plot twist.

Hoping

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You major in the irrelevant.
You say the apostles served only Israelites and didn't serve Gentiles, but the data I dug up shows most of them died in foreign, non-Jewish lands.
Were you unaware of the solemn agreement that these apostles made with Paul?
Gal 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
And even before that agreement... there's this:
Acts 11:19 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:19) ¶ Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Solemn agreement?
Did they sign it with blood?
Do you really think the original apostles refused to talk to Gentile believers after Acts 11?
Didn't Peter, and other Jews, travel to Antioch to visit Paul? (Gal 2)
Was Paul violating your solemn agreement when he went to the synagogues at his first stop in the cities he visited?
Your doctrine is too divisive.
It tries to separate Jewish from Gentile believers.
I bet Paul would say the same thing, as he wrote..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:27-29)

Also..."Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." (Col 3:11)
There is one Body, and all folks are welcome to be part of Him.
 
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Tambora

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Did I miss it somewhere?
Could be.

The kingdom gospel Jesus taught was a kingdom that was at hand and not of this world.
If it were of this world then His servants would have fought to keep Him from being handed over to the Jews.
 

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Could be.

The kingdom gospel Jesus taught was a kingdom that was at hand and not of this world.
If it were of this world then His servants would have fought to keep Him from being handed over to the Jews.
It was not YET of this world.
It was most definitely a kingdom on the earth.
 

Rhema

Active member
You are believing what you want to believe.
Right back at you.

It does seem that way if you ignore every other thing that Jesus said.

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
One can make the assertion that Jesus was a false teacher who really didn't want the lost sheep of the house of Israel to even understand.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. ... All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:​
(Matthew 13:13, 34 KJV)​

There are people who fixate on this verse (and you know who you are Garee...), in the same manner that you fixate on this "I am not sent."

But he answered her not a word. ...​
(Matthew 15:23 KJV)​

You see Jesus' silence as a repudiation of His love toward the people of Canaan. But was not Jesus a shrewd teacher? He waited until the hearts of his disciples' hatred was exposed.

But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.​
(Matthew 15:23 KJV)​

Once the evil intent of His disciples' heart was uncovered, then Jesus turned to deal with the heart of the woman of Canaan.

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​
(Matthew 15:24 KJV)​
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."​
(Matthew 15:24 NRSV)​

And at the time of that statement, I can agree that Jesus was likely sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, for His Father had not yet instructed him to do so otherwise. But you chide me about context, and I reply that you are not seeing this event within the broader context of the ministry of Jesus. But look at what the woman NOW did in reply. Did she reply in anger at being rejected? Did she leave brokenhearted? Downcast, muttering racist comments about stuck up Jews under her breath? No ...

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.​
(Matthew 15:25 KJV)​

Does your God turn anyone away who calls upon His name? We now see the heart of the PERSON, regardless of race, and Jesus was not a racist to reject this person's cry, but tested the strength of that faith.

But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.​
(Matthew 15:26-28 KJV)​

So this "only to" the lost sheep of the house of Israel is NOT a universal principle, or you have Jesus committing sin - de facto. Jesus dealt with the faith of each person after a recognition of worship is made. It was to the shame of the house of Israel that Jesus once had to declare this:

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.​
(Matthew 8:10 KJV)​

But I know that you repudiate the teachings of the Kingdom of heaven as having any validity today, so we are at an impasse for which I can only wonder why you think Matthew would even bother writing a book that he knew to be obsolete and useless at the time of its publishing?

Jesus gave Paul a different mission.
Said Paul. And I mention this as a fact only, that the assertion that "Jesus gave Paul a different mission" was only made by Paul.

If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.​
(John 5:31 KJV)​

But I realize that this evokes a much larger discussion on such a matter than I could possibly deal with here in a sentence or two.

Rhema
 

Tambora

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Yes, the word 'now/ Grk nun' pronounced 'noon' means 'presently' as opposed to 'later'.

Also, 'kosmos' translated 'world' means this present arangement.
Agreed.
And that is the kingdom gospel Jesus was preaching, the kingdom that was at hand and not of this world.
 

JudgeRightly

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Jesus didn't say "yet".

So, "not of this world" means "on earth" to you?

"My Kingdom is not of THIS world."

Because THIS world will be destroyed, and a NEW EARTH will come.

The Kingdom of Israel was always and will always be an "earthly" kingdom. It was never a "heavenly" kingdom. Never would be.
 

Tambora

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It was in Him, and now it is in us...
It's hard to express what that even means.
I think it might have more meaning than just inner feelings.


if we repent and get washed by His blood and endure faithfully until the end.
I keep thinking about what was said about Abraham:

Hebrews 11 ESV​
(10) For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.​

To me that sounds like the eternal city that Jews and Gentiles share together without distinction and is only contingent on one's faith.
 

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Jesus didn't say "yet".

John 18:36 (AKJV/PCE)
(18:36) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

That means "not yet".
So, "not of this world" means "on earth" to you?
NOT NOW of this world.... it will be... therefore this:

Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
 

steko

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Agreed.
And that is the kingdom gospel Jesus was preaching, the kingdom that was at hand and not of this world.

Sorry, but I don't agree.
When John the Baptist said to Israel that the kingdom of heaven/GOD was at hand he meant the prophesied Davidic Kingdom with Messiah restoring that Kingdom unto Israel and Messiah ruling from David's throne in earthly Jerusalem and unto the uttermost parts of the earth. Otherwise, they wouldn't have a clue what he was talking about. Their only source of information was prophesy and promises from the OT scriptures.
Likewise, the LORD Jesus and His disciples preached the same thing and those of Israel who concluded and confessed that He, Jesus of Nazareth, was the Messiah the Son of the living GOD believed the same thing.
The Church the body of Christ with a heavenly citizenship was a secret until revealed from the ascended LORD to and thru the Apostle Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles/Nations.
 
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steko

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It was in Him, and now it is in us...if we repent and get washed by His blood and endure faithfully until the end.

'Enduring until the end' means survival for Jewish believers of the Davidic Kingdom gospel thru to the end of the tribulation, yet to come.

And you didn't answer my question, "When did the LORD Jesus return? When was His second coming?"
 

Tambora

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John 18:36 (AKJV/PCE)
(18:36) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
That only helps to make the point that the kingdom gospel Jesus was preaching was not the future restored kingdom of Israel on earth, but was the eternal kingdom.
In fact Jesus even told the disciples that the future restored kingdom of Israel on earth was not for them to even know the times or seasons about.
So it wasn't the kingdom Jesus was concerned with when He was preaching the kingdom gospel while He walked with His disciples during His earthly ministry or when He talked with them after His resurrection.
The kingdom gospel He preached was the superior eternal kingdom.
 

Tambora

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Sorry, but I don't agree.
That's OK.
Even brilliant minds can disagree.

When John the Baptist said to Israel that the kingdom of heaven/GOD was at hand he meant the prophesied Davidic Kingdom with Messiah restoring that Kingdom unto Israel and Messiah ruling from David's throne in earthly Jerusalem and unto the uttermost parts of the earth.
Or that could be conjecture on your part.


Otherwise, they wouldn't have a clue what he was talking about.
Many times they didn't know what He was talking about.

Their only source of information was prophesy and promises from the OT scriptures.
Right.
But many times they didn't connect the dots properly.

Likewise, the LORD Jesus and His disciples preached the same thing and those of Israel who concluded and confessed that He, Jesus of Nazareth, was the Messiah the Son of the living GOD believed the same thing.
The Church the body of Christ with a heavenly citizenship was a secret until revealed from the ascended LORD tp and thru the Apostle Paul, the Apostle of the Gentiles/Nations.
The eternal kingdom with all mankind (Jew and Gentile alike) was not a secret.
It was also in OT.
The OT told that the Jews would be regathered WITH Gentiles accompanying them.
 

Hoping

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It's hard to express what that even means.
I think it might have more meaning than just inner feelings.
Yeah.
The kingdom of God in us is ruled by God.
We cannot act without His influence.
It is written..."And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20-21)
I keep thinking about what was said about Abraham:
Hebrews 11 ESV​
(10) For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God.​
To me that sounds like the eternal city that Jews and Gentiles share together without distinction and is only contingent on one's faith.
It also reminds me of what the Jews of Jesus' time were looking for.
Something physical.
But God's kingdom doesn't have high walls and turrets, or flags.
It is His power within us to do His will.
In time, more manifestations of that kingdom will be shown.
 
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Hoping

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He didn't ignore them, he required them to first bless Israel. Anyone in the planet could approach God. Anyone on the planet could be resurrected. In the manner he demanded.
I am glad we agree on that.
Though Jesus' prime goal while here was the conversion of the Jews, He wouldn't have turned away anyone from another nation.
 
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