ECT The Gift of Eternal Life

[john w]

Thank you for proving you refuse to listen. You'll repeat yourself over and over again WITHOUT addressing any points that have been made to you. You ignore every single IF that we see in scripture. Why do you do that, Jerry? "If you confess your sins, they will be forgiven.."

That is his MO on TOL.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I agree with the answer Paul and those with him gave to the following question:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

A person is saved the moment when they believe, as witnessed the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a person believes he receives eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life.

You claim that there are many people that have already received eternal life, yet most of them have died, proving that they have not yet received eternal life.

Paul said he has the hope of eternal life according to the promise of God.

Titus 1:1-2 1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;​

What you call "saved" is not receiving eternal life, it is receiving the promise of eternal life.

1 John 2:25 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What you call "saved" is not receiving eternal life, it is receiving the promise of eternal life.

According to John the promise was realized because he said the following to the believers:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (Jn.5:11).​

You claim that there are many people that have already received eternal life, yet most of them have died, proving that they have not yet received eternal life.

In the future believers will receive immortal bodies which will never die. But the answer given by Paul and those with him was in answer to a salvation already possessed by believers:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Here is the salvation which is already in the possession of believers:

"Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (1 Pet.1:8-9).​

 

[genuineoriginal]

In the future believers will receive immortal bodies which will never die.

By definition, the future time when "believers will receive immortal bodies which will never die" is the time when believers actually receive eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:54 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​

Here is the salvation which is already in the possession of believers:

"Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (1 Pet.1:8-9).​

Yes, the salvation of our souls is the end result of our faith (it happens after we have lived out our faith).

Hebrews 9:15 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.​

Hebrews 10:36 36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

By definition, the future time when "believers will receive immortal bodies which will never die" is the time when believers actually receive eternal life.

I will believe Peter instead of you because he tells those who received his first epistle that they had already been given eternal life:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (Jn.5:11).​

 

[genuineoriginal]

I will believe Peter instead of you because he tells those who received his first epistle that they had already been given eternal life:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (Jn.5:11).​

You are not believing Peter.
Peter states that we receive the salvation of our souls at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:6-9 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You are not believing Peter.
Peter states that we receive the salvation of our souls at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:6-9 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.​

The word "receiving" means that they have already received the salvation of their souls. If that salvation remmains in the future he would not have used the word "receiving."

 

[genuineoriginal]

The word "receiving" means that they have already received the salvation of their souls. If that salvation remmains in the future he would not have used the word "receiving."

You seem to be ignoring the context.
Peter is talking about the trial of your faith that lasts until the appearing of Jesus Christ.
Peter states that at the end of the trial of your faith you will be receiving the salvation of your souls.

You also need to figure out how to parse verbs.

Have receiving? No
Have already receiving? No

Are receiving? Maybe, but not in the context of the verse which states that now you are in the trial of your faith.
Will be receiving? Yes.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Will be receiving? Yes.

Let us look what the Lord Jesus said about receiving eternal life:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."

So once a person believes he receives eternal life. You can argue all you want that I am wrong but I will believe what the Lord Jesus said instead of what you say.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Let us look what the Lord Jesus said about receiving eternal life:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occuring in actual time."

So once a person believes he receives eternal life. You can argue all you want that I am wrong but I will believe what the Lord Jesus said instead of what you say.

When a person believes, his name is written in the book of life, and he is guaranteed to receive eternal life at the return of Jesus.
And once a person's name is blotted out from the book of life because of unbelief, that person no longer has eternal life, but has a guarantee of being thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When a person believes, his name is written in the book of life, and he is guaranteed to receive eternal life at the return of Jesus.

You obviously do not understand the "present" tense.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You obviously do not understand the "present" tense.

Luke 10:20 20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.​

I know why the disciples were to rejoice because their names are written in heaven.

Philippians 4:3 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

When a person believes, his name is written in the book of life, and he is guaranteed to receive eternal life at the return of Jesus.

According to you eternal life won't be possessed by believers until the return of the Lord Jesus but in order to make that outlandish statement you just deny what the Apostle John said here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

It's a done deal but since you refuse to believe the Scriptures you remain confused.

 

[genuineoriginal]

According to you eternal life won't be possessed by believers until the return of the Lord Jesus

It is not according to me, it is according to the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​

but in order to make that outlandish statement you just deny what the Apostle John said here:

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).​

It's a done deal but since you refuse to believe the Scriptures you remain confused.

The Bible says we are given eternal life when we believe but the Bible also says we are not given eternal life until Jesus returns.
You have chosen to believe the verses that say we are given eternal life when we believe.
Since you cannot accept the verses that say we are not given eternal life until Jesus returns, you have chosen to reject those verses.

On the other hand, I refuse to reject either set of verses, so I have to find a way to reconcile the apparent contradiction in my mind so I can accept both sets of verses.
The way I have reconciled the apparent contradiction is by recognizing that several verses in the Bible state that we are given the promise of eternal life.
A promise is not a statement about something we have already attained.
A promise is a statement about something we will attain at some future time.

When we believe, we are already "saved" and already have "eternal life" because we have been given the promise that we will be saved and receive eternal life when Jesus returns.
But, we have not yet attained true salvation and this mortal has not yet put on immortality.

We have been given an earnest as a guarantee that the promise of eternal life will be fulfilled.

2 Corinthians 5:5 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Bible says we are given eternal life when we believe but the Bible also says we are not given eternal life until Jesus returns.
You have chosen to believe the verses that say we are given eternal life when we believe.

If you would actually use your brain you would know that a person has already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) so that means that he has eternal life prior to the appearance of the Lord Jesus.

It is true that Christians will not put on immortal bodies until the appearance of the Lord Jesus but the inward man has already received eternal life:

"Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day" (2 Cor.4:214-16).​

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you would actually use your brain you would know that a person has already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) so that means that he has eternal life prior to the appearance of the Lord Jesus.

It is true that Christians will not put on immortal bodies until the appearance of the Lord Jesus but the inward man has already received eternal life:

"Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day" (2 Cor.4:214-16).​

If you will be raised up in the future, then it is painfully obvious that you don't have eternal life, yet.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you will be raised up in the future, then it is painfully obvious that you don't have eternal life, yet.

You are so inept in regard to understanding the Scriptures that you are unable to tell the difference between the outward man and the inward man!

The only thing that is painful is your ignorance!

 

[john w]

A "half time" summary of the 2 "contenders"(loosely employed) on the "thread," so far-Jer and GO:

You seem to be very confused about...it's according to the bible...

You are confused...you refuse to believe the Scriptures you remain confused.

TOl is mesmerized....A heavy weight fight!I had never thought of those debate enders, "closes!"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We know that you are trying to change the subject of this thread because you don't want to let others to see that eternal life is a "gift" because you teach that the Jews who lived under the law could only receive that gift by doing "works."

You've been taking lessons from "God's Truth" behind our backs and it won't be long before you will argue on her side that those living in the present dispensation must also do "works" to receive the gift. For some reason you are attracted to nonsense.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You are so inept in regard to understanding the Scriptures that you are unable to tell the difference between the outward man and the inward man!

You are mistaken if you think the inward man has eternal life when the body can die.